Model Y vs Mustang Mach E

[2101Guy]

I think people are vastly-underrating the SC network and it’s amazing benefit. As someone who owned a Bolt and had to make regular 200-mile round trips, having to rely on third-party charging networks like EA and EVGo was nerve-racking and oftentimes extremely disappointing. I’ve yet to have issues at a SC. Until Ford and other EV makers can make that as reliable for a road trip or even just long commutes, they’ll struggle to gain traction. That makes the Mach-E a no for me — for now, at least.

I certainly dont underestimate the SC network. For those who do regular long distance travel, I can certainly understand the benefits. But fact is, by far, majority of actual miles driven are shorter drives/trips. I've had my Model S since December 2019 for example. I have free supercharging. I've used supercharging exactly 2 times by necessity (used it a couple other times locally just for the heck of it) during road trips that were about 180 miles each way. It was very convenient/fast. And if I road tripped somewhat regularly, I would certainly place more value on it. But fact is, most Tesla drivers don't routinely use supercharging as a necessity. By far, per Tesla, most Tesla owners do the majority of their charging, at home. And since im somewhat fortunate where my roadtrips tend to be along the I95 corridor between Virginia to DC/Baltimore and between Virginia to NC, there are third party charging stations that are also plentiful if I were to consider a non Tesla EV in the coming years. So I'd not be overly concerned about lack of charging stations. But again..thats my situation. Everyone's will be different.

Goes back to what I mentioned earlier, which is something that goes for any large purchase, really: defining one's personal requirements/needs, then using that data as one of the factors for purchase. And again, that $7500 isnt something to sneeze at..

 

[patmurphey]

First, the premise of this thread's poll is $7500. It's important to remember that, with comparable configurations, the Mach E is priced about $5000 above the Mode Y, leaving a $2500 difference, pretty insignificant for a $50,000 or so car. Who knows what the credit status will be under Biden if he keeps his promises.

My choice will be made in the fall when I replace my second car, hopefully post covid. Model Y choice is likely to be a Texas car for East Coast. Single castings and structural battery pack should improve efficiency and solve panel fit. The castings are now in the works in Freemont, where quality has improved a great deal including the paint, reported by Sandy Munro to be as good as anyone's.

NJ rebate is tentatively returning next summer and the Mach E AWD long range barely qualifies with zero options, like paint color. I would have $5000 open to work with on a comparable Model Y. Another price cut by Tesla wouldn't surprise me with their high and improving margins. If FSD is available as a subscription by then it might be fun to try it out. The $10,000 might be worth it if it stays with the owner (purchased after delivery to stay qualified for the NJ rebate).

The Mach E is still an attractive option, but with limited sold out production it might not even be an option for me. I understand the marketing decision to make it look like conventional ICE car with mustang Styling at the expense of efficiency, but I wish that Ford and some of the other companies would think out of the box and design their cars to be the best they can be as EVs. My other option in the fall would be the Audi Q4 etron, which suffers from the same design conservatism. I don't trust Audi's projected pricing because many Audi features are typically options. And, it might not be ready.

BTW, fear the Chinese for quality! The Chinese Teslas are top rated. I phone are not shabby, either.

 

[pt19713]

How many Mach-Es even exist? How can anyone claim consistency?

Deliveries are occurring now, plus various pre-prod versions. If the pre-prod versions are good, prod versions should also be good. Plus, the Detroit boys are known to have better fit/ finish than Tesla. If anyone thinks Tesla has superior/ consistent panel gaps and interior build quality, pass me what they're smoking.

 

[MXLRplus]

I've driven both Teslas and CCS cars in the Western US.
Everyone claims CCS is terrible. I'm guessing they haven't used it on a 200mi+ real range EV.

First, the premise of this thread's poll is $7500. It's important to remember that, with comparable configurations, the Mach E is priced about $5000 above the Mode Y, leaving a $2500 difference, pretty insignificant for a $50,000 or so car. ...

It depends on what you are willing to surrender. The usable kWh on the Ford is 88kWh, it has 360° view, blindspot tech, and better cellular integration. But I am puzzled why Ford didn't have an HUD option or truly upscale seating option.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Many would make the case for the typical Mustang, panel gaps were no better than what Tesla is currently putting out.

Mustang has always been a value proposition. Lots of HP for little $. Not considered luxury vehicles but accepteable as "secretary cars"

Lots of people would never buy a first year production of a brand new Ford.

It would not be unusual, if the Machi is in high initial demand, for their sleezy dealerships to slap on the dreaded "Additional Dealer Markup" or "Market Pricing adjustments"

 

[MXLRplus]

Many would make the case for the typical Mustang, panel gaps were no better than what Tesla is currently putting out.
...

The quality issues that Tesla needs to work on:
% software feature availability at point of sale.
Fastening of trim components adequately.
Chassis flex creates NVH after a few months.
Fitment of interior components is poor.
Excessive hood flex.
Erratic User Settings, especially with multiple drivers.

We will see how the Ford does. Like most mfrs today, they do extensive real world testing on hundreds of cars before the first one hits the lot, but it is always wise to wait for year two or three on a 100% clean sheet car.

Think about how you do a product release. You have 100 features you want to incorporate. 90 make the deadline. What do you do? With Ford and most mfrs, you don't ship with those features and don't mention them to avoid Osborning the release. Then you continue to work on those features and they try to get them released at the next model year or 1/2 year. Keep in mind that features that improve HP, range, charging speed, and sound levels are among the '100 feature' list.

As we all know Tesla marches to a different drummer ...

 

[threeputts]

Unless something very strange happens I will never buy a vehicle from a legacy car maker again.

These bastards would not be offering any EV now if Telsa had not been leading the way, they have all been either actively against EV and emission standards or pretending like it was too hard to do.
</rant>

I get that sentiment but the sooner BEVs are more widely available and less expensive than they are today the better.

 

[Y_tho]

Here are a few things to think about (aside from much-discussed factors like brand loyalty, delivery availability, and charging availability) which might influence your choice more than a tax credit:

• Proximity to an SC or dealership. Some folks (such as myself) are 15-30 minutes from a local SC, but there are some regions with a 1-2 hour drive to get to one. Same with dealership locations.
• Aftermarket parts availability. Tesla has quite a few established aftermarket parts manufacturers. There are even 3D-printable items now available (such as the tow-hitch cover removal tool). 3rd-party sites such as teslafi and teslascope are also available. Might take a while for Mach-e aftermarket ecosystem to grow.
• Software updates. I do believe Mach-e will have infotainment updates. Not sure how frequently. Tesla has had a fairly consistent ~monthly cadence, with some really nice enhancements over time (and not just entertainment: climate-control tweaks, performance tweaks, etc). There are even the occasional upgrade options (such as the Model Y Enhanced Auto-pilot upgrade special, back in September, as well as the $2000 AWD performance-boost option).
• User interface. The Mach-e has a navigation/selection scroll-wheel on its vertical display, along with a second display behind the steering wheel, which might work better for you.
• Fairly-well-known resale market. We still don't have a good idea of resale value for used Mach-e, since that's not really a thing yet.
• Phone app support. Tesla's app is decent but a bit limited in some areas (like scheduled departure and energy stats). Unsure about the Mach-e app.
• Tire sizes and replacement. There are now a few options for replacement Tesla tires. Not sure how prices compare with Mach-e tire replacements. Probably worth looking into, especially for aggressive driving and more frequent tire replacement.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I've driven both Teslas and CCS cars in the Western US.
Everyone claims CCS is terrible. I'm guessing they haven't used it on a 200mi+ real range EV.



It depends on what you are willing to surrender. The usable kWh on the Ford is 88kWh, it has 360° view, blindspot tech, and better cellular integration. But I am puzzled why Ford didn't have an HUD option or truly upscale seating option.

The upscale seating option was reserved for the GT with the Performance Pack.

 

[2101Guy]

anyone know which has best phone integration?
Here is one thing I WISH Tesla had: WAZE on the big screen.

 

[BigPoppa]

what were your thoughts behind these two statements? The bullet points in between would indicate otherwise, in your own words. I can't say Mach-E is a better overall car cause I have not driven it... I do like the exterior design better than the MY.

But, I can argue MY is actually a the better crossover. Are you aware that the clearance of the Mach-E is lower than Model Y? Over cargo space of Mach-E is also less? So what features of a crossover did you think Mach-E have over MY?

I consider the better EV to be different from the better car/crossover. I firmly believe the Tesla is the better EV but given the known Model Y quality issues and interior design decisions, I feel the Mach-E is the better car/crossover.

Since I was specifically looking at the Mach-E GT vs the Model Y Performance, I didn't and don't judge them on their off-road capabilities. Honestly, across all trim levels, I wouldn't take either one off-road. To me, their capabilities are best suited for less than ideal road conditions. Essentially equivalent to rally cars. If I wanted a small SUV, I would have gone with something with more ground clearance than either one currently offers. I don't equate crossovers with off-road capability. I look at crossovers as being hatchbacks on steroids.

 

[BigPoppa]

anyone know which has best phone integration?
Here is one thing I WISH Tesla had: WAZE on the big screen.

The Mach-E has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto whereas the Model Y doesn't so I would argue the Mach-E has better phone integration. That being said, if you don't need the additional app support that CarPlay/Android provide, then the bluetooth sync has proven sufficient for me.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Agreed on these, although the tire size thing isn't as limiting as you would think. Just look for slightly different sizes that fi

The Mach-E has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto whereas the Model Y doesn't so I would argue the Mach-E has better phone integration. That being said, if you don't need the additional app support that CarPlay/Android provide, then the bluetooth sync has proven sufficient for me.

If you text in the car a lot, as I do, ACP is WAY better than the Tesla interface.

 

[El joe]

But fact is, most Tesla drivers don't routinely use supercharging as a necessity. By far, per Tesla, most Tesla owners do the majority of their charging, at home. And since im somewhat fortunate where my roadtrips tend to be along the I95 corridor between Virginia to DC/Baltimore and between Virginia to NC, there are third party charging stations that are also plentiful if I were to consider a non Tesla EV in the coming years. So I'd not be overly concerned about lack of charging stations. But again..thats my situation. Everyone's will be different.

True, most of my driving is handled by in-home charging. But as you mentioned, not everyone has that luxury. I know tons of people that rely on third-party charging networks. When I had my Bolt, my 200-mile drive was oftentimes very stressful. Sure, my initial charge was at-home. But once I was out on the road relying on PlugShare and praying that a charger wouldn't be in-use, ICE'd, or just not work wasn't any fun. And too often, EA would fail me leading me on a hunt to find another charger. It doesn't take too many of those experiences to leave a sizeable imprint on your feelings toward third-party chargers and realize how important it is to your overall experience.

But yeah, to your other point, that $7,500 rebate would be nice though.

 

[acentre]

You know Tesla is making vehicles in China currently, right? And that your argument makes zero sense.

Both are American manufacturers.

Mach E made in Mexico, Tesla USA, Tesla has a plant in China for the Asian market

 

[angus[Y]oung]

anyone know which has best phone integration?
Here is one thing I WISH Tesla had: WAZE on the big screen.

@2101Guy out of curiosity, have you tried Tesla Traffic Incidents and Information ? EDIT: cannot confirm, but apparently you can use this site in the browser in your Tesla to access Waze on the go.

 

[acentre]

The Mach-E has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto whereas the Model Y doesn't so I would argue the Mach-E has better phone integration. That being said, if you don't need the additional app support that CarPlay/Android provide, then the bluetooth sync has proven sufficient for me.

Tesla Nav and music is better than CarPlay

 

[MXLRplus]

Tesla Nav and music is better than CarPlay

Except when it isn't. Voice commands and Nav require good weather, and USB music still has basic problems like pausing, losing favorite list, or failure to see the port at random. Lack of AM sucks.
Sometimes I get in the car, and BT will not hook to phone. I need to reboot car and phone, sometime more than once to get it to latch. Other times it turns off the Message Notification at random, like once a month.
Then there is car rebooting itself while you're driving.

The software is not mature when compared to other 2016+ cars, regardless of price.

I'm not flaming Tesla over this. I am making a business observation. If you rely on cellular communication with your car for business, you are probably better off NOT marrying your phone to your Tesla. I have irritated several customers so far due to interrupted or missed communications in the Tesla. My other cars and trucks are much better in that regard.

 

[Needsdecaf]

The upscale seating option was reserved for the GT with the Performance Pack.

LOL to the guy who downvoted my post, try reading their website.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Tesla Nav and music is better than CarPlay

Having had both, totally disagree. Except you can't beat Tesla's map.