LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
And yet he says it is better than all the other non-tesla EV designs they've examined. Which includes VW, Chevy and BMW.
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Model Y vs Mustang Mach E
- Thread starter Radish11
- Start date
Perhaps, F+ instead of (just) F!
Cruised over to the Mach E forum a few minutes ago to see how the MME was really doing. WOW...there is crazy stuff over there! Many bricked cars from going downhill, but even more scary multiple owners having the High Voltage battery going bad and leaving them stranded. Over 2 months to get it fixed. I thought Telsa got all the heat for "parts delays". A few owners had the glass roof crack while sitting in the garage, and no parts till December!
Plus PaaK is a disaster over there still. Remember reading over there about Ford having all these great OTA's "coming soon" like Paak fixed, sentry mode, dog mode, etc. They have gotten ZERO OTA's all year, that do anything. The only OTA's are to get the OTA system ready to do OTA's LOL.
I will say, you thought Tesla fan's were bad...there are some crazy fans over there that go crazy defending all these issues. Some real "MUS-STANS".
Plus PaaK is a disaster over there still. Remember reading over there about Ford having all these great OTA's "coming soon" like Paak fixed, sentry mode, dog mode, etc. They have gotten ZERO OTA's all year, that do anything. The only OTA's are to get the OTA system ready to do OTA's LOL.
I will say, you thought Tesla fan's were bad...there are some crazy fans over there that go crazy defending all these issues. Some real "MUS-STANS".
Tha_Ape
Active Member
I have 0 brand loyalty. Would have easily gotten a Mach-E if I felt confident they could do long range trips. Tesla won for the sole reason that it can use superchargers as well as all the other chargers other EVs can use.
When I get cars, I set my requirements first then filter out what works. The Rav4 Prime was the best choice for me, but there were none available in the trim with the HUD (why Tesla doesnt have a HUD is beyond me... my $25k prius has one and I love it) and on top of that, the one that was available was getting marked up $11k. 40mi electric is PLENTY for driving around town. I have a Prius Prime and regularly get 2500+ mi/tank because a vast majority of my trips are under 25mi. 40mi, would probably have me getting 4000mi/tank,
The other 2 on my list were the Mach-E and the MY. The MY nudged it out for long range drivability and 7-seats was a nice to have.
I've had my car for ~1mo and still have stuff that needs to be corrected since taking delivery. Glovebox opens ~20% of the time, scuffs on interior trim, and another piece which they forgot to replace when I had a door handle that wouldnt retract adjusted along with a bent seatback a week after delivery. I'm less than impressed with the fit, finish, and QC on the Tesla, but like I said, I needed an small SUV capable of driving long distances that was an EV/PHEV and Tesla just happened to be what worked.
Mach-E does NOT seem like a bad car at all, and if I only needed a car to tool around <100mi radius, I'd have gotten that.
When I get cars, I set my requirements first then filter out what works. The Rav4 Prime was the best choice for me, but there were none available in the trim with the HUD (why Tesla doesnt have a HUD is beyond me... my $25k prius has one and I love it) and on top of that, the one that was available was getting marked up $11k. 40mi electric is PLENTY for driving around town. I have a Prius Prime and regularly get 2500+ mi/tank because a vast majority of my trips are under 25mi. 40mi, would probably have me getting 4000mi/tank,
The other 2 on my list were the Mach-E and the MY. The MY nudged it out for long range drivability and 7-seats was a nice to have.
I've had my car for ~1mo and still have stuff that needs to be corrected since taking delivery. Glovebox opens ~20% of the time, scuffs on interior trim, and another piece which they forgot to replace when I had a door handle that wouldnt retract adjusted along with a bent seatback a week after delivery. I'm less than impressed with the fit, finish, and QC on the Tesla, but like I said, I needed an small SUV capable of driving long distances that was an EV/PHEV and Tesla just happened to be what worked.
Mach-E does NOT seem like a bad car at all, and if I only needed a car to tool around <100mi radius, I'd have gotten that.
BigPoppa
Member
I can't say I have zero brand loyalty but like you, I also figure out my requirements and go from there.
I had a deposit on a Mustang Mach-E GT until I found out it was going to use CCS charging. Having a Chevy Bolt and Energica Ribelle, both of which use CCS, I knew CCS wasn't going to cut it for me in a road trip capable EV (which the Mach-E was going to be). That swung me back to the Model Y. I have had it since November and I've taken it from the SF Bay Area down to the Palm Springs area and up to the Seattle, WA area. The Supercharger network is the biggest reason to buy Tesla if having a road trip capable EV is one of your requirements.
If I were looking for an EV only for "local" driving, then I would likely have stayed with the Mach-E. In day to day local driving, I rarely have any need to charge outside my home, rendering fast charging irrelevant.
I own a Model Y (MY) Long Range (10 months) and we are thinking about getting another EV so recently test drove Mustang Mach E (MME) Premium. The MME is a great car however the MY is the better car. Here’s why…
Speed – The MY is quicker. Using Car & Driver 0-60 times the MY is 4.1 seconds, the MME is 4.9. AND
you feel it when you drive the MY, the power, torque, is always there on demand… off the line, at 30
mph, at 60 mph more so than MME
Steering & Handling – The MY steering is very quick and accurate. The handling is light, the car, although
it is has a lot of weight, is tossable. The MME steering and handling is good but you can feel the weight.
The MME also has ridiculously skinny tires that lose grip fairly easily…and just look wrong on a “sports”
car
Semi-Autonomous Driving – I have Enhanced Autopilot that will steer and control speed & braking on
any road that has lines including highways, county roads, local roads etc. It changes lanes automatically
on highways and will automatically navigate on highways. It has the best accident avoidance of any car I
have driven. I use Autopilot all the time, it makes driving much much easier and enjoyable. Autopilot is
years ahead of anything on the market or coming out (Bluecruise). The MME currently does not have
Semi-Autonomous Driving.
Ride / Noise – The MME is slightly smoother and you hear less road noise than MY. However, in my test
drive the MME had a whining noise coming from the display.
Towing – the MY can tow up to 3500 lbs. You can order a hitch directly from Tesla that is
integrated/hidden into the bumper. The MME cannot tow anything. Period. If you want to put a hitch
on it will be a 3rd party hitch that sits underneath the bumper, very low to the ground. No guidance
from Ford on how much weight you can put on it for a bike rack or other attachments.
Ground Clearance – the MME has a ground clearance of 5.7 inches which is the same as a Toyota Camry.
The MY clearance is 6.6 inches which is more of what you would expect from a CUV/SUV.
Cargo – MY has 68 cubic feet, the MME has 59 cf. Under deck storage in MY is much bigger than MME
Charging – MY can charge up to 250 kw, the MME only 150 kw which means charging from 10% to 80%
in MY is about 23 minutes, the MME will take about 45 minutes.
Charging Network – the Tesla Supercharger network is well known to charge at high speeds, is very
dependable, and is everywhere. Ford depends on other vendors for their charging networks which
usually charge slower, are undependable, with gaps in coverage.
Energy efficiency – the MY is rated at 125 MPGe, the MME is 90 MPGe
Range – both cars are similar with slight edge to MY, but charging and time to destination will be longer in MME
Infotainment – MY has robust music streaming with many music/entertainment options including ability
to request song by voice command which will stream immediately with a new channel created with
similar theme. I use it all the time. MY includes Netflix, Youtube, Hulu, etc. Also include many video
games. MME has CarPlay. MY streaming is far superior to Carplay….you won’t miss Carplay. Screen is
more responsive in MY than MME. The sound quality in MY is better than MME.
Navigation – watch Youtube “EVDave” navi comparison. The MY is superior especially for mapping trips
with charging stations.
One Pedal Driving – MME 1 pedal driving is not as smooth as MY
Reliability – there were a lot of issues with the first MY’s delivered however most of those issues have been
resolved. I have over 12,000 miles on my MY and not one issue in 10 months. Tesla has been building
EVs for 8 years, their engineering is better. Watch Sandy Munro Mach-E thermal nightmare on
YouTube.
Driving position / Comfort – the MY seats are more comfortable and adjustable. MY adjusts 12 ways,
MME only 8 ways. In the MME you sit low so you are looking into long bulky hood, you are also sitting
below window sill. The MY provides a more commanding view of the road. Steering wheel in MY is
much more adjustable than MME. Also MY has power adjustable steering wheel with memory.
Warranty – MY is 4 years/46K miles with 120K miles for battery vs MME 3 years/36K miles with 100K
miles for battery
Made in USA – MY Is assembled in USA, MME is assembled in Mexico.
Sentry Mode & Dash Cam – Standard in MY. Not available in MME
Hands free lift gate – Standard in MME. Not available in MY
Third Row – Option in MY. Not available in MME
Home Charging – Tesla is faster. At 240v MY 30 mph vs 21 mph for MME. With wall charger MY is 42
mph and MME is 30 mph. Also, wall charger for MY is $500, the MME wall charger is $799.
Heat Pump – MY uses heat pump which is more efficient in cold weather. MME uses resistive heating
which is less efficient.
FUN – the MY is more fun to drive. It is one of the main reasons I bought the car, it reminds me of the
old BMW Model 3s that were pure fun. You’ll find yourself giggling as you accelerate or drive on windy
roads. The MME is enjoyable to drive but just not as fun as the MY.
Dealer Markup – it appears that Ford dealers are charging at least $5,000 over sticker. No markup at
Tesla.
Cost – MME Premium AWD w/extended battery $57,400. MY AWD Long Range - $52,990. MME is
eligible for $7,500 fed tax credit but not MY however congress may make MY eligible again. Both cars
are eligible for state rebates and tax credits.
sorry for the long post, hope this helpful…..
Speed – The MY is quicker. Using Car & Driver 0-60 times the MY is 4.1 seconds, the MME is 4.9. AND
you feel it when you drive the MY, the power, torque, is always there on demand… off the line, at 30
mph, at 60 mph more so than MME
Steering & Handling – The MY steering is very quick and accurate. The handling is light, the car, although
it is has a lot of weight, is tossable. The MME steering and handling is good but you can feel the weight.
The MME also has ridiculously skinny tires that lose grip fairly easily…and just look wrong on a “sports”
car
Semi-Autonomous Driving – I have Enhanced Autopilot that will steer and control speed & braking on
any road that has lines including highways, county roads, local roads etc. It changes lanes automatically
on highways and will automatically navigate on highways. It has the best accident avoidance of any car I
have driven. I use Autopilot all the time, it makes driving much much easier and enjoyable. Autopilot is
years ahead of anything on the market or coming out (Bluecruise). The MME currently does not have
Semi-Autonomous Driving.
Ride / Noise – The MME is slightly smoother and you hear less road noise than MY. However, in my test
drive the MME had a whining noise coming from the display.
Towing – the MY can tow up to 3500 lbs. You can order a hitch directly from Tesla that is
integrated/hidden into the bumper. The MME cannot tow anything. Period. If you want to put a hitch
on it will be a 3rd party hitch that sits underneath the bumper, very low to the ground. No guidance
from Ford on how much weight you can put on it for a bike rack or other attachments.
Ground Clearance – the MME has a ground clearance of 5.7 inches which is the same as a Toyota Camry.
The MY clearance is 6.6 inches which is more of what you would expect from a CUV/SUV.
Cargo – MY has 68 cubic feet, the MME has 59 cf. Under deck storage in MY is much bigger than MME
Charging – MY can charge up to 250 kw, the MME only 150 kw which means charging from 10% to 80%
in MY is about 23 minutes, the MME will take about 45 minutes.
Charging Network – the Tesla Supercharger network is well known to charge at high speeds, is very
dependable, and is everywhere. Ford depends on other vendors for their charging networks which
usually charge slower, are undependable, with gaps in coverage.
Energy efficiency – the MY is rated at 125 MPGe, the MME is 90 MPGe
Range – both cars are similar with slight edge to MY, but charging and time to destination will be longer in MME
Infotainment – MY has robust music streaming with many music/entertainment options including ability
to request song by voice command which will stream immediately with a new channel created with
similar theme. I use it all the time. MY includes Netflix, Youtube, Hulu, etc. Also include many video
games. MME has CarPlay. MY streaming is far superior to Carplay….you won’t miss Carplay. Screen is
more responsive in MY than MME. The sound quality in MY is better than MME.
Navigation – watch Youtube “EVDave” navi comparison. The MY is superior especially for mapping trips
with charging stations.
One Pedal Driving – MME 1 pedal driving is not as smooth as MY
Reliability – there were a lot of issues with the first MY’s delivered however most of those issues have been
resolved. I have over 12,000 miles on my MY and not one issue in 10 months. Tesla has been building
EVs for 8 years, their engineering is better. Watch Sandy Munro Mach-E thermal nightmare on
YouTube.
Driving position / Comfort – the MY seats are more comfortable and adjustable. MY adjusts 12 ways,
MME only 8 ways. In the MME you sit low so you are looking into long bulky hood, you are also sitting
below window sill. The MY provides a more commanding view of the road. Steering wheel in MY is
much more adjustable than MME. Also MY has power adjustable steering wheel with memory.
Warranty – MY is 4 years/46K miles with 120K miles for battery vs MME 3 years/36K miles with 100K
miles for battery
Made in USA – MY Is assembled in USA, MME is assembled in Mexico.
Sentry Mode & Dash Cam – Standard in MY. Not available in MME
Hands free lift gate – Standard in MME. Not available in MY
Third Row – Option in MY. Not available in MME
Home Charging – Tesla is faster. At 240v MY 30 mph vs 21 mph for MME. With wall charger MY is 42
mph and MME is 30 mph. Also, wall charger for MY is $500, the MME wall charger is $799.
Heat Pump – MY uses heat pump which is more efficient in cold weather. MME uses resistive heating
which is less efficient.
FUN – the MY is more fun to drive. It is one of the main reasons I bought the car, it reminds me of the
old BMW Model 3s that were pure fun. You’ll find yourself giggling as you accelerate or drive on windy
roads. The MME is enjoyable to drive but just not as fun as the MY.
Dealer Markup – it appears that Ford dealers are charging at least $5,000 over sticker. No markup at
Tesla.
Cost – MME Premium AWD w/extended battery $57,400. MY AWD Long Range - $52,990. MME is
eligible for $7,500 fed tax credit but not MY however congress may make MY eligible again. Both cars
are eligible for state rebates and tax credits.
sorry for the long post, hope this helpful…..
roblab
Active Member
T'm trying to figure out the excitement over Heads-up Displays. Nobody actually nods their head to look down four inches to see the dashboard. Their eyes constantly flicker up, down, sideways while driving, and a glance shows what you need to know in an instant. I can read my speed in my peripheral vision, but I must say I'm not staring straight ahead. And if I were staring straight ahead, I'd have to glance downward maybe for a quarter second. And I wouldn't be doing my glancing just as a semi was changing lanes immediately in front of me. I have zero trouble driving my S or my 3.
This need for a heads-up seems like a straw man. One wonders how we lived long enough driving cars with instrument panels WAY down on the dashboard! I have never read an accident report where the driver crashed because he was checking his speed.
This need for a heads-up seems like a straw man. One wonders how we lived long enough driving cars with instrument panels WAY down on the dashboard! I have never read an accident report where the driver crashed because he was checking his speed.
Thanks for a thoughtful and detailed analysis of the differences. Different strokes different folks. For me, I can’t stand the thought of owning something clearly outdated.
rxlawdude
Active Member
Watch the videos from people whose Mach-Es are deemed "can't fix that" by moron Ford dealers. (Yes, redundant.)
LargeHamCollider
Battery cells != scalable
This is the best comparison of the two I've seen anywhere, very nice write up. Thank you.
I think karma is biting them in the butt. Before the first deliveries were made, they laughed at the Tesla quality issues, which were one-offs out things that don't occur often, such as windows shattering, a bumper coming off in the rain, fit/finish issues, etc. With only 30k-40k delivered, there are numerous quality issues with the screen buzzing, PaaK not working, glass & roof cracks, roof sitting higher than windshield, overheating & bricking down a hill, and the list goes on. The hardcore Ford fans scoff it as first year build issues. 8 months ago they were confident the Mach-E first year build quality would be impeccable. I guess they didn't learn anything from the Explorer & F-150 issues they had recently.
I hope Ford has better luck with their electric F-150.
Mach-E is supposed to be the Tesla Model Y killer. That's not working out.
Chevy Bolt was supposed to be the Tesla Model 3 killer. That hasn't worked out.
Mach-E is supposed to be the Tesla Model Y killer. That's not working out.
Chevy Bolt was supposed to be the Tesla Model 3 killer. That hasn't worked out.
I think if they could get more batteries and semiconductors, they would sell more. A lot of people don't like the Y styling, and prefer the traditional dealer network for service. Many hate Elon and want nothing to do with Tesla products. Ford is selling Mach-E to those types of people.
rxlawdude
Active Member
You really ought to watch the Youtube of a MME owner's attempt to get simple things done at a traditional dealer. Perfect demonstration of why Tesla's approach to owning service outlets works better. Traditional legacy dealers simply don't give a schiesse about EVs. Not their area of expertise or interest. At least until Ford/Chevy EVs are 40% of their sales.
El joe
Active Member
True, and many are just Ford loyalists. Seen a lot of people in YouTube that just pledge allegiance to the blue oval and want to stick to the brand.
The "Hands free lift gate" can be added to the MY for about $90 and few hours of your time. I am not a big "mod" guy but this was $90 well spent for me. Great bang for the buck.
One issue Tesla still has is limited service centers in some areas. I have a friend looking at buying a Tesla but from Myrtle Beach, it's 2-3 hours to the nearest service center.
I had that issue when I first purchased my car in MI in 2016. The closest to me was 3 hours away out of state. Glad I didn’t let that deter me. Never had to go there. Mobile service was great. Now that a couple are finally allowed in my state, I did go there for a windshield replacement last year and MCU2 upgrade this year.
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