Model Y vs Nissan Leaf efficiency

[Swoosh99]

I own a model Y standard range and a 2015 Nissan leaf. I ran an efficiency test between the two where I measured energy going in and how many miles I got out in city driving, where there's an 80% chance of stopping at a red light on every block. The temperature outside was about 80 degrees.

The results came out to be that the model Y clocked in at 512wh/mi and the leaf at 335wh/mi.

I haven't tried comparing highway efficiency yet, but I'm certain the model Y will beat my leaf on the highway. However, I'm really disappointed that my Tesla efficiency in the city is so much worse my leaf. Tesla has been touted as highly efficient, but no so in my case. I realize that the model y is a much heavier car but I didn't expect it to be this inefficient based on the the advertised city mileage.

Do you experience similar inefficiency driving in a busy city?

 

[PatrickCH4313]

Question : how can you get 319 Wh/km (=512 Wh/mi) with your model Y when a Model S needs 180 Wh/km (summer) and 210 Wh/km (winter) average.

 

[Swoosh99]

1) I charged my Tesla to 80%.
2) Drove my Tesla around on the city for a couple days.
3) Looked at the odometer of miles driven since last charge
4) charged model y back to 80% and recorded the number of Kwh injected from my wall charger.
5) divided Kwh from charger by miles actually driven.

 

[PatrickCH4313]

The best method is to used your counters in the car. The charger (wallbox) needs some additional Kw for warming the battery, managing the load, etc.
The car counter shows the amount of Kw needed for the number of km driven.

In this case 1'851.2 kWh for 10'240 km so an average of 181 Wh/km (Summer 2019)



In this case 640.1 kWh for 2'900 km so an average of 224 Wh/km (Winter 2020/2021)

 

[Candleflame]

dont compare the leaf to the tesla please. not in the way you are doing it.

 

[Swoosh99]

dont compare the leaf to the tesla please. not in the way you are doing it.

Why is it a bad comparison this way?

 

[Swoosh99]

The best method is to used your counters in the car. The charger (wallbox) needs some additional Kw for warming the battery, managing the load, etc.
The car counter shows the amount of Kw needed for the number of km driven.

In this case 1'851.2 kWh for 10'240 km so an average of 181 Wh/km (Summer 2019)

View attachment 713516

In this case 640.1 kWh for 2'900 km so an average of 224 Wh/km (Winter 2020/2021)

You might be right, Everytime I charge the Tesla, it might be using more power to manage the charging compared to the leaf. If that's the case then maybe I shouldn't be charging everyday unless I dip below 30%....

 

[Sophias_dad]

Why is it a bad comparison this way?

Aside from the 2015 leaf being a glorified golf cart with a range of like 80 miles on a good day, does it also have 24/7 monitoring of its surroundings?

Did you do everything you could(within reason) to reduce vampire losses in the Y, like turning off Sentry mode and disabling summon(or smart summon, if that's what keeps the car awake?)

Did you park the Leaf in your garage where it won't get hot, and the 3 out in the sun where the AC will blast whenever you get in?

 

[Candleflame]

Aside from the 2015 leaf being a glorified golf cart with a range of like 80 miles on a good day, does it also have 24/7 monitoring of its surroundings?

Did you do everything you could(within reason) to reduce vampire losses in the Y, like turning off Sentry mode and disabling summon(or smart summon, if that's what keeps the car awake?)

Did you park the Leaf in your garage where it won't get hot, and the 3 out in the sun where the AC will blast whenever you get in?

some people dont get it. My little toy AC car also has less consumption than a Model Y or a leaf..........

 

[jcanoe]

The 2020/2021 Model Y is larger, heavier than the 2015 Leaf. The passenger cabin has a lot of glass and a glass roof. If this is Oahu then the elevation changes, even measured over a mile, can be extreme. 512 Wh/mi in the Model Y, especially when driven short distances, is not surprising. Much of the energy used in the first mile or so is the AC cooling the passenger cabin to the desired temperature.

 

[Sophias_dad]

And don't forget cabin overheat protection. Park it at work in the sun at 80F, and COP will turn on the AC every half hour or somesuch... all day long. At least turn it to 'Fan only' mode.

 

[jcanoe]

And don't forget cabin overheat protection. Park it at work in the sun at 80F, and COP will turn on the AC every half hour or somesuch... all day long. At least turn it to 'Fan only' mode.

The power used by Preconditioning and Cabin Overheat Protection is not included in the driving efficiency calculation.

 

[Sophias_dad]

The power used by Preconditioning and Cabin Overheat Protection is not included in the driving efficiency calculation.

The way OP was measuring, it would be included in his/her efficiency calculation. Sounds like it was "how many miles did I travel during N days, and how much more charge did I have to put into the car to get back to the original percentage"

 

[bluenycom]

The results came out to be that the model Y clocked in at 512wh/mi and the leaf at 335wh/mi.

Do you experience similar inefficiency driving in a busy city?

The only times I have seen my MY with that inefficiency numbers or worst are the first few minutes of driving or going up the mountain. My commute has frequent stop/go and bumper to bumper with average speed about 20-40 MPH and I normally get 230-240 wh/mile round trips (40 miles). I have taken local roads vs freeways depending on traffics with similar energy usage.

 

[Exelion]

It takes a very long time after the MY starts driving for it to show a *real* Wh/M. I would say about 5-7 miles. I look at the Wh/M constantly and it usually starts somewhere between 400 and 600, dropping to the typical 240-260 almost halfway through a work commute.

If someone were to take readings long before this has settled, of course they would get unrealistic, super-high readings. Going by those readings would put the YLR at only 120-150 miles of range (and would be wrong).

 

[Fourdoor]

The power used by Preconditioning and Cabin Overheat Protection is not included in the driving efficiency calculation.

I am not vouching for the OP's calculation, but you have to realize he isn't doing a driving efficiency calculation, he is doing "plug to road" calculations for both cars based on energy used BY THE CHARGER and number of miles driven. This is also in a daily driving short trip use situation, (worst case for a Model Y).

There are Tesla snobs on this board who will crow about how it is all about saving the planet... unless you point out that several little short range shitbox EV like a Nissan Leaf, or Chevy Spark EV use less energy in a "daily commuting" situation... then it is all about everything else other than saving the plant.

I got my MYP for evil purposes, so the Leaf would not be my style, but for every enviro-warrior out there, for around town driving (not road trips) the Leaf would be an upgrade... and they can't stand it!

Keith

PS: For those arguing for a driving efficiency only calculation, are kWh used for other purposes free monetarily and free of carbon? If not, they effect your bank account and the environment just as much as kWh used to push the car down the road and should be included in an efficiency study.

 

[FatherTo1]

1) I charged my Tesla to 80%.
2) Drove my Tesla around on the city for a couple days.
3) Looked at the odometer of miles driven since last charge
4) charged model y back to 80% and recorded the number of Kwh injected from my wall charger.
5) divided Kwh from charger by miles actually driven.

I suspect #2 is the culprit. Driving it around for a few days would include consumption from Sentry Mode, AC, Dog Mode, Cabin Overheat Protection, battery cooling/heating, and Summon Standby (if you have it)…basically many energy draining features absent from the Leaf.

My roundtrip commute this morning, including an extra stop at the grocery store, averaged 222 Wh/m, even better than EPA rated range of 240 Wh/m. It was 100% city driving with 45 MPH speed limits and 75 degrees outside.

 

[Candleflame]

It takes a very long time after the MY starts driving for it to show a *real* Wh/M. I would say about 5-7 miles. I look at the Wh/M constantly and it usually starts somewhere between 400 and 600, dropping to the typical 240-260 almost halfway through a work commute.

If someone were to take readings long before this has settled, of course they would get unrealistic, super-high readings. Going by those readings would put the YLR at only 120-150 miles of range (and would be wrong).

he doesnt measure it that way. hes measuring it at the outlet

 

[frankvb]

My (fully non-scientific) comparison is that the 2018 Leaf (40 kWh battery) averaged 3.7 miles/kWh or 270 Wh/mile, the current 2022 one (60 kWh) is doing 3.5 / 285 (but has new tires so could get better a bit still). Model Y is doing 280-300 Wh/mile driving on similar routes. All as reported by the vehicle.

Obviously I put my foot down more in the Y so I'd say that is pretty amazing for a vehicle that is way faster, larger and heavier.

BTW: mix of local and freeway driving within San Diego.

 

[Tronguy]

So, getting a Model Y on Monday. But I've been driving a Model 3 LR since 2018. And there's a point, here: If one is trying to get from Kalamazoo to Schenectady, then one really, really wants the highway miles for the trip. The first five miles (10 miles on a M3 without the heat exchanger) is going to be bad, especially in winter, but then everything warms up and one is getting EPA efficiency.
And that's for highway driving. In local driving: If one was using a MY as a delivery vehicle for Grubhub, then the distance one is going to get out of the car has to do with the local mileage efficiency, and that's what people who want to charge the least are going want to know. Again, at that point, it's EPA numbers.
The problem with the OP's original post: If I took at nominal 25 mpg ICE car, drove it two miles, stopped for an hour, then lather, rinsed, and repeated for the next few days, nobody would be surprised if the car got 8 mpg. The MY, like all BEVs, does have an optimal operating temperature and, again, doesn't particularly like short trips where the car has to get warmed up to, or attempted to get warmed up to, operating temperature.
Finally: If one took a BEV and followed the OP's methods, but then took an ICE and did the exact same, both cars would have lousy operating efficiency compared to their EPA efficiency, but the BEV would still be far cheaper to run.
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