Moderation to Snippiness Needs To Be Reigned In A Bit

[Andyw2100]

I have been putting off starting a thread like this, but the post I just had moved to snippiness broke the camel's back.

For the last several weeks I've noticed a major shift in the moderators' propensity to move non-snippy posts to the snippiness thread.

Bonnie had a post moved there for saying "Bless Your Heart":

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snippiness - Page 151

Originally Posted by Eclectic
Notice who continues to make the ad hominem comments and who responds to the topic of this thread...



Bless your heart.
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andrewket had a post moved there that was a joke about the way the poster worded something:

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snippiness - Page 151

Originally Posted by jcaspar
BMW 3 series is definitely a mass market car in California. Every other late teen seems to have one here.



Knocked up teen girls are driving BMWs? Only in California :smile:
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My post that was just moved is this one:

snippiness - Page 156

Originally Posted by Xenoilphobe
Lets write a Letter to Elon and have everybody sign a petition!



Why don't you start a thread doing that. If I agree, I'll sign.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Jaff
I am getting really tired of listening the whiney, selfish, more literal than an eight year old malcontents, constantly picking nits...it's a great car, but nothing is perfect...nothing! get over it!



Why would you post this in a positive thread, that existed for people to post positive things about their cars?

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There is nothing snippy about any of the above posts, and dozens of others moved to snippiness in the past few weeks.

The post above was in a thread that started to veer into negativity after the quoted poster's post. Some of those posts were moved by a mod to an "excised" thread, and then later moved to "random chitchat." How my post above--one of the more mellow of the bunch--got moved to snippiness instead of to random chitchat along with the others is a mystery to me.

I know the mods are all volunteers, and I do appreciate the time they put into this. I just think one or more may now be moderating with a very heavy hand, and that there really needs to be more consistency with respect to the moving of posts.

 

[Krugerrand]

Don't take it personal. As someone who has visited the snippiness thread on a number of occasions, and always knowing what my intent was for every single post...yep, sometimes posts are misinterpreted. On the other hand, there are dozens and dozens of posts that are clearly snippy that don't get moved, some of them mine. I think sometimes it depends on whether a post/posts have been reported.

P.S. 'Bless Your Heart' doesn't mean what you think it means. :wink:

 

[Blue_Model_S]

I stopped going to teslamotors.com forum because of people calling each other idiots. So I really like what moderators are doing here to keeping things under control.

 

[Canuck]

In my opinion, all the post above deserved their fate, which is simply moving them to where they belong, along with some of my posts that got moved there. I like the moderation here and to err on the side of keeping it civil by stopping things before they escalate.

It also makes me think a bit before I go on the attack with a comment to someone to keep it out of that thread.

 

[ModelX]

I have no problem if some posts get moved that might be iffy. I prefer a civil forum.

 

[Andyw2100]

Don't take it personal. As someone who has visited the snippiness thread on a number of occasions, and always knowing what my intent was for every single post...yep, sometimes posts are misinterpreted. On the other hand, there are dozens and dozens of posts that are clearly snippy that don't get moved, some of them mine. I think sometimes it depends on whether a post/posts have been reported.

P.S. 'Bless Your Heart' doesn't mean what you think it means. :wink:

Thanks for the note.

As someone who really makes an effort to use the appropriate tone in discussions, keep things civil, etc., it definitely does bother me to get moderated off to snippiness. But it bothers me almost as much when I see it happening more than it seems to have happened in the past to others as well.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but my perception is that snippiness is now being used as a kind of catch-all thread when mods want to move posts out of the original threads, whether or not the posts that require moving are actually snippy or not. A couple of weeks ago more than twenty posts in a row (starting with post 1508 in snippiness) were moved out of the thread that had started talking about putting sugar in the gas tank of a truck that had been blocking a supercharger and had a charging end inserted in its gas tank. Some of the posts were snippy, but others just needed to go somewhere, so they got dragged along with the snippy ones. You actually had some that fell into both categories.

TMC is a place for discussion. People are going to disagree. As long as they aren't doing it rudely, abusively, etc., the mere fact that they are disagreeing--even if they are disagreeing vehemently-- shouldn't result in their posts winding up in snippiness, at least in my opinion. And if snippiness is really going to be used as a catch-all thread, perhaps the name should be changed to something like "Snippiness and other moved posts", or "Snippiness and posts caught in the crossfire." As it stands now, with the thread title being just "Snippiness", the implication is that posts found there are there because they were snippy.

I'm probably thinking about this too much.

But since I'm on a roll, I'll give one more example of how funky moderation might really lead to the wrong impression being given later. Check out posts 1544 and 1545:

snippiness - Page 155

snippiness - Page 155

The first is from Bonnie, and says: "I tend to stop reading when the mansplaining begins."

That was followed in the thread by a very offensive post, that was completely deleted by the mods. But before it was deleted, I posted what is in the thread now immediately below it, and I purposely didn't quote the offensive post, because I expected that post to be moderated away, and I didn't want mine to be moderated away just because I had quoted from it. I wrote:

"I appreciate Bonnie's criticism. The above was uncalled for. (I'm not quoting it because if it gets moderated away somewhere, I'd prefer this post not get dragged along with it.)

It goes pretty much without saying that Bonnie is one of, if not THE most respected member(s) here. That's not to say she can't ever be wrong, or that everyone should agree with her all the time. I don't. But the above crossed a line, in my opinion."

Someone seeing those two posts next to each other in Snippiness, without any indication that there was another post just completely deleted, and who doesn't know how much respect I have for Bonnie might actually think I was suggesting that --SHE-- had crossed a line when referring to the above post, based on the rest of that post. So now a post in which I took offense to someone offending Bonnie, and said so could appear as if I am making a negative comment towards Bonnie simply because of how the three posts were moderated.

Again, I know the mods have a really hard job to do, and that it is generally thankless. I try to thank them when I can, and I definitely do appreciate what they do. I just really think something has changed in the past few weeks, and if it's not going to change back, then perhaps a slight thread name change for the snippiness thread is in order.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I have been putting off starting a thread like this, but the post I just had moved to snippiness broke the camel's back.

For the last several weeks I've noticed a major shift in the moderators' propensity to move non-snippy posts to the snippiness thread.

Bonnie had a post moved there for saying "Bless Your Heart":

--
snippiness - Page 151

Originally Posted by Eclectic
Notice who continues to make the ad hominem comments and who responds to the topic of this thread...



Bless your heart.
--


andrewket had a post moved there that was a joke about the way the poster worded something:

--
snippiness - Page 151

Originally Posted by jcaspar
BMW 3 series is definitely a mass market car in California. Every other late teen seems to have one here.



Knocked up teen girls are driving BMWs? Only in California :smile:
--


My post that was just moved is this one:

snippiness - Page 156

Originally Posted by Xenoilphobe
Lets write a Letter to Elon and have everybody sign a petition!



Why don't you start a thread doing that. If I agree, I'll sign.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Jaff
I am getting really tired of listening the whiney, selfish, more literal than an eight year old malcontents, constantly picking nits...it's a great car, but nothing is perfect...nothing! get over it!



Why would you post this in a positive thread, that existed for people to post positive things about their cars?

--


There is nothing snippy about any of the above posts, and dozens of others moved to snippiness in the past few weeks.

The post above was in a thread that started to veer into negativity after the quoted poster's post. Some of those posts were moved by a mod to an "excised" thread, and then later moved to "random chitchat." How my post above--one of the more mellow of the bunch--got moved to snippiness instead of to random chitchat along with the others is a mystery to me.

I know the mods are all volunteers, and I do appreciate the time they put into this. I just think one or more may now be moderating with a very heavy hand, and that there really needs to be more consistency with respect to the moving of posts.

Andy,

As far as I can tell (I haven't read all of your postings) you are a respectful poster. However, as you have pointed out, posts can be excised or moved to random chit chat or in general moved to dump zones. Beyond rudeness, which are generally directed to snippiness, moderators will move off-topic postings to to these various dump zones so that they will not disrupt the original purpose of the thread. Unfortunately, lately there have been a lot of emotion-laded threads and more of this sort of moderation is needed to protect the intent of thread originators.

As I mentioned in another thread:

Andy,

I understand your position as do most forum members. However, with all due respect this is the "I like my car.." thread, not the "I didn't get my money's worth" thread. You have at least two other threads expressly devoted to that latter position.

I'm sure the original poster meant this is an upbeat, "feel good" thread. Your first sentence or two was on-topic, everything following, including other posters' previous remarks about the P85D issue, in my opinion are off-topic to this thread and should be discussed elsewhere.

Thanks.

Larry

Your off-topic comments, along with other posters comments that you complained about, in addition to my posting quoted above, were all off-topic and were excised out of a thread that was deliberately orginated to be upbeat, and not to be yet another thread dedicated to discussing the pros and cons of P85D grievances.

I hope this helps you get a better appreciation of what the moderators are trying to achieve with these actions.

Larry

 

[Andyw2100]

I stopped going to teslamotors.com forum because of people calling each other idiots. So I really like what moderators are doing here to keeping things under control.

I have no issue whatsoever with posts that are actually snippy, rude, etc., being moved to snippiness. My issue is with posts that --ARE NOT-- rude or snippy being sent there.

Andy,

As far as I can tell (I haven't read all of your postings) you are a respectful poster. However, as you have pointed out, posts can be excised or moved to random chit chat or in general moved to dump zones. Beyond rudeness, which are generally directed to snippiness, moderators will move off-topic postings to to these various dump zones so that they will not disrupt the original purpose of the thread. Unfortunately, lately there have been a lot of emotion-laded threads and more of this sort of moderation is needed to protect the intent of thread originators.

As I mentioned in another thread:



Your off-topic comments, along with other posters comments that you complained about, in addition to my posting quoted above, were all off-topic and were excised out of a thread that was deliberately orginated to be upbeat, and not to be yet another thread dedicated to discussing the pros and cons of P85D grievances.

I hope this helps you get a better appreciation of what the moderators are trying to achieve with these actions.

Larry

You actually just made my point about inconsistency for me.

As I pointed out upthread, a bunch of posts were moved to the "excised" thread, and then later from there to the "chitchat" thread.

My post above, though, made after those had been moved, and thus not part of that group, was moved to snippiness. There was absolutely nothing snippy about it. The first half was responding to someone who actually was mocking my letter, though that mocking post wasn't moved anywhere, and it said very seriously that I'd sign his letter if I agreed with it. The second part asked in a perfectly polite way the poster who first took the thread negative--also a post that was not moved--why he or she had done so. None of that was in any way rude or snippy!

So I'll reiterate my suggestion that if snippiness is going to be used as a catch-all, it should be renamed, to indicate that. And I'll also reiterate my desire for more consistency with respect to which posts are moved.

 

[Larry Chanin]

You actually just made my point about inconsistency for me.

As I pointed out upthread, a bunch of posts were moved to the "excised" thread, and then later from there to the "chitchat" thread.

My post above, though, made after those had been moved, and thus not part of that group, was moved to snippiness. There was absolutely nothing snippy about it. The first half was responding to someone who actually was mocking my letter, though that mocking post wasn't moved anywhere, and it said very seriously that I'd sign his letter if I agreed with it. The second part asked in a perfectly polite way the poster who first took the thread negative--also a post that was not moved--why he or she had done so. None of that was in any way rude or snippy!

So I'll reiterate my suggestion that if snippiness is going to be used as a catch-all, it should be renamed, to indicate that. And I'll also reiterate my desire for more consistency with respect to which posts are moved.

Hi Andy,

I appreciate your complaint. Sometimes innocent bystanders during an exchange can get caught up in an excision due to snippiness. That's a fact of forum life and I am sincerely sorry about that.

However, even if someone's postings are polite, but they are off-topic, then they should be removed. If an overworked moderator happens to dump it in snippiness instead of a dump zone with a title such as random chit chat, or grammar misteaks, or off-topic, or you name the title that you favor, I hope that you can appreciate their positions and will cut them some slack knowing that it is more important to perserve the intent of the thread than to select the appropriate title of a dump zone.

Larry

 

[Andyw2100]

Hi Andy,

I appreciate your complaint. Sometimes innocent bystanders during an exchange can get caught up in an excision due to snippiness. That's a fact of forum life and I am sincerely sorry about that.

However, even if someone's postings are polite, but they are off-topic, then they should be removed. If an overworked moderator happens to dump it in snippiness instead of a dump zone with a title such as random chit chat, or grammar misteaks, or off-topic, or you name the title that you favor, I hope that you can appreciate their positions and will cut them some slack knowing that it is more important to perserve the intent of the thread than to select the appropriate title of a dump zone.

Larry

I guess I would have two remaining points, then.

One is that I still have a sense that this moderation is taking place a lot more now than it was a few weeks ago.

The other is that if snippiness is becoming somewhat of that catch-all dump zone, then it should have it's thread title changed slightly to reflect that. I think people would feel better about their posts being moved there incorrectly if it was called something like what I suggested upthread. As of now, I'll be honest and say it does annoy me to have a post that I took the time to carefully word so as not to be one that would get moved to snippiness wind up being moved there anyway. I'm sure it annoys others as well. It's insulting, whether the insult is intended or not. It feels like a punishment. It would be a lot less insulting if the thread title was slightly changed.

 

[Auzie]

My guess is that some people find it uncomfortable being dragged into snippiness because of the negative connotation in the thread name. Posts end up there for all sorts of reasons, not just for being snippy, at least that is my impression.

It seems to be moderators judgement call which posts get there. It is not surprising that sometimes people might feel that there was some inconsistency in moderation. It is quite hard to be consistent on a large volume of diverse posts screened by several different people.

Perhaps it would help if the thread name were a bit less confronting. My view is that the most appropriate name would be a naughty corner, but that could be even more confronting

The snippiness thread could be renamed with a name that has slightly positive spin, few options listed below:

Time out thread
Chill out thread
Funny thread
Entertainment thread

For the next level of transgressive posts, there could be a thread whose name goes up a notch with a negative connotation in the name, few options listed below:

Repetitive posts thread
Disruptive posts thread
Beating dead horse thread
Stating the obvious thread

The ultimate negative spin in the thread name can be something like:

Disrespectful post thread
Insulting thread
Name calling thread

If there were more than 2 destination threads for removed posts, that could just add fuel to the fire as the affected posters could argue the removal justification based on a narrower (thread title) scope.

It may be that the simplest solution is the best.

When the stakes in discussions are perceived to be high and people seem to hold entrenched views, it may get heated. Moderators seem to be doing a fine job in taking control of such situations before they escalate. Perhaps the situation you describe Andy is one of those situations, consequently moderators may step up a notch with their moderation and that might appear as inconsistent.

 

[ArtInCT]

I like AUZIE's Idea but suggest a more "AUTONOMOUS" approach that is in keeping with the overall Tesla "thing". Perhaps one or more of the talented and great coders here can create a thread analyzer which would be used by moderators and also could be used in the preview time prior to actual reply or thread posting... this bit of code would be called The SNIPPY-O-METER. It could read some number of posts prior to yours as well as looking at all recent posts you have just created or replied to in order to make a correlation of the content and trend. The SNIPPY-O-METER if it had a UI, would be in the new FLAT motif vs "SKEWMATIC" motif sp?.

The SNIPPY-O-METER could start out as a Beta and then over time would get over-the-Forum updates honing in and refining its skills to discern Disrespect, Insults and general Crankiness. In the meantime, we all TMC members could and should talk about the SNIPPY-O-METER V1.0 as if it ACTUALLY exists today, well before it has been coded, beta tested and is generally available. Oh yes, and the Beta would first roll out.... in.... NORWAY!!

In that regard, I suspect the SNIPPY-O-METER would reduce the number of posts overall to TMC by 50 or 60% if it noticed the keywords, amongst others... "P85D", "0-60" or "horsepower".

The SNIPPY-O-METER could also just dump rejected posts into a TODAY's SNIPPY THUMBS DOWN thread for all of us to read, comment on and reply to.
The TODAY's SNIPPY THUMBS DOWN thread possibly could be NOT monitored by the SNIPPY-O-METER and as such would be the most ribald, disorganized and perverse TMC thread. I suspect it would get the most reads....

Ok, who is up for writing the SNIPPY-O-METER? Any of you API guys or gals up for the task?:smile:

Lastly, there should be a new BUTTON (again in the FLAT design motif) we all can click which would be much like the REPUTATION nomination but in reverse. Clicking it would promote any TMC post and poster to be part of the NDA SNIPPY BETA TESTERS.... the first 100 so nominated would get something like the Rolling Stones tung logo under their Posts count. These folks would be the real curmudgeons of TMC. Readers Beware! Ohh the horror....

 

[AnOutsider]

I guess I would have two remaining points, then.

One is that I still have a sense that this moderation is taking place a lot more now than it was a few weeks ago.

I don't think the load has increased THAT much, though as most may have noticed, emotions and tensions have been running pretty high lately as well.

The other is that if snippiness is becoming somewhat of that catch-all dump zone, then it should have it's thread title changed slightly to reflect that. I think people would feel better about their posts being moved there incorrectly if it was called something like what I suggested upthread. As of now, I'll be honest and say it does annoy me to have a post that I took the time to carefully word so as not to be one that would get moved to snippiness wind up being moved there anyway. I'm sure it annoys others as well. It's insulting, whether the insult is intended or not. It feels like a punishment. It would be a lot less insulting if the thread title was slightly changed.

Both you and auzie make a good point there. I've brought it to the attention of the other mods and admins.

 

[cpa]

Maybe keep "snippiness" for insults and other inappropriate comments. All others wind up in "purgatory."

 

[Canuck]

"Snippiness" is too offensive? I think that's a pretty tame title. We all need to grow a little bit of thicker skin.

 

[Auzie]

I vote for a name change from snippiness to popcorn. That is slightly positive connotation and that thread is quite amusing to read.

 

[Canuck]

I vote for a name change from snippiness to popcorn. That is slightly positive connotation and that thread is quite amusing to read.

Why do we need a "positive connotation"? That defeats the point of the thread. Sometimes we need a kick in the a#$!

 

[MsElectric]

All I have to say is that I wish we had McLary on TMC... He sometimes makes more sense than most

 

[SW2Fiddler]

I thought it was less of a description of the posts, than a clever title for a collection bucket for posts that get "snipped".

 

[Auzie]

I vote for a name change from snippiness to popcorn. That is slightly positive connotation and that thread is quite amusing to read.

Why do we need a "positive connotation"? That defeats the point of the thread. Sometimes we need a kick in the a#$!

I thought it was less of a description of the posts, than a clever title for a collection bucket for posts that get "snipped".

Snippiness seems to be in the eye of the beholder

All I have to say is that I wish we had McLary on TMC... He sometimes makes more sense than most

Not familiar with the gentleman, google not helpful either