Modern cruise control

[tomas]

I had this max speed feature in my Jaguar XF which I believe was 2009. I've never seen it on another US car. I think it actually used cruise control logic because feeling over hills was same. It did a crappy job of staying at speed on downhills but was generally ok. US and Asian manufacturers seem to have bypassed this and put their money in TACC, which is a different thing. Agree speed limiter might be useful but I do not expect to see it on 3 because it is about driver input and Tesla is obsessed with autonomous features.

 

[DR61]

Cruise Control is for level highways with at most gentle grades on hills. Where it fails, and notably has never been improved, is how it behaves when the car starts up steeper grades. Here the brain-dead CC downshifts and floors the accelerator in order to mindlessly maintain the same road speed. This is gross misbehavior that is contrary to most driver's reaction which would be to simply hold the pedal steady and climb the hill at a reduced speed (no downshifting, no roaring of the engine). If the hill continues most drivers will increase pedal a bit after the inevitable downshift so that the engine power increase is minimized. This is civilized driving and a CC that would allow for that might be called "Elastic CC" as opposed to the road speed based aggressive CC. That no manufacturer has offered an algorithm based CC is indicative of herd mentality of the worst sort. [end of rant]
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Actually our 2013 Ford C-Max Energi phev has a feature like this called Eco Cruise. With setting on it was much less aggressive in climbing hills. On hills it would usually settle on a speed a few MPH short of the set speed until the grade lessened.

 

[wycolo]

Excellent!! I hope Ford continues with this concept. 'Econo Cruise' says it all and Tesla users have been turning theirs off in hilly country due to the perceived waste of energy. Whether or not energy is wasted overall on a mountainous trip, it is certainly more pleasant to be able to dial back the CC's enthusiasm.
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[BobbyKings]

> It will manage your speed perfectly from standstill in traffic jams up to your set max speed (plus offset when applicable). [BobbyKings]

When climbing hills does it allow for different settings of aggressiveness or does it always maintain the same road speed (100% agressive)?

What does changing the offset actually do?
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Do not worry about aggressiveness; it is remarkably smooth anyhow.

The offset: If you set the offset to i.e. 2 miles per hour, and the car knows or reads a 55 miles per hour speed limit, it will set the TACC speed at 57 miles per hour when pulling the stalk a few seconds towards you (in Model S/X, 3 to be discovered...). Dynamically, meaning that if speed limits change along the road it will change max speed accordingly.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Do not worry about aggressiveness; it is remarkably smooth anyhow.

The offset: If you set the offset to i.e. 2 miles per hour, and the car knows or reads a 55 miles per hour speed limit, it will set the TACC speed at 57 miles per hour when pulling the stalk a few seconds towards you (in Model S/X, 3 to be discovered...).

I saw you mentioned in two posts that you have to hold the stalk for a few seconds. Have you tried just pulling the stalk once quickly? I've never had to hold the stalk to set anything. Does holding it for several seconds do something different than a quick pull?

 

[Spidy]

Mercedes has that on the stalk that Tesla uses or used.

 

[BobbyKings]

I saw you mentioned in two posts that you have to hold the stalk for a few seconds. Have you tried just pulling the stalk once quickly? I've never had to hold the stalk to set anything. Does holding it for several seconds do something different than a quick pull?

If you pull the stalk quickly it sets speed to your current speed. If you pull and hold for a few seconds then it sets speed to known speed limit (plus offset).

 

[run-the-joules]

I feel like this is only useful for places with oppressive speed limits and draconian penalties.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

If you pull the stalk quickly it sets speed to your current speed. If you pull and hold for a few seconds then it sets speed to known speed limit (plus offset).

Not in our Teslas. If we quickly push the stalk up or down, it sets current speed. If we quickly pull the stalk towards the driver, it sets it to the speed limit plus the offset. I've never needed to hold the stalk to set the offset cruise speed. If I am entering a highway that is 65 mph, I can be at 50 mph, quickly pull the stalk and it will set the speed to 70 mph (65 mph + 5 offset). If I enter my neighborhood with a speed of 25 mph, I don't want the offset so I push it up or down quickly and it sets it to the current speed. This is with AP2 hardware on both Teslas. We previously had an AP1 Model S and it worked the same way IIRC.

 

[schonelucht]

Surprising that this feature is not well known in the American car world. It's pretty common for any car that has cruise control as well in Europe. It's not really anything to do with cruise control but it's basically a speed limiter : you are still in control and in charge of the speed through the pedal, the system will just limit your max speed to whatever you have it set. In dense but still fluid traffic it's a great feature to have. Standard cruise control wouldn't work since in such conditions obviously but adaptive cruise control is also problematic since you want to let the gap open and close dynamically on patterns around you, not just on the distance to your front runner. For example if a car on a different lane is signalling that it wants to merge you may want to let the gap open up to give them room. It's much easier to control those dynamics with the pedal than through a stalk or anything. But at the same time, the speed limiter will prevent you from getting caught up once the road is a bit clearer and you accelerate towards the next bunch of cars and going over the limit.

Now that I think of it, I can see how this feature may not be that usefull in US traffic where it is much less common to see these kind of merging patterns since it is ok to overtake on the right. But in European traffic it certainly is.

 

[BobbyKings]

Whatever the current operating method is on the S and the X, which apparently differs by region, I'm pretty confident that the Model 3 will get a very very modern cruise control.

 

[gambit48]

Surprising that this feature is not well known in the American car world. It's pretty common for any car that has cruise control as well in Europe. It's not really anything to do with cruise control but it's basically a speed limiter : you are still in control and in charge of the speed through the pedal, the system will just limit your max speed to whatever you have it set. In dense but still fluid traffic it's a great feature to have. Standard cruise control wouldn't work since in such conditions obviously but adaptive cruise control is also problematic since you want to let the gap open and close dynamically on patterns around you, not just on the distance to your front runner. For example if a car on a different lane is signalling that it wants to merge you may want to let the gap open up to give them room. It's much easier to control those dynamics with the pedal than through a stalk or anything. But at the same time, the speed limiter will prevent you from getting caught up once the road is a bit clearer and you accelerate towards the next bunch of cars and going over the limit.

Now that I think of it, I can see how this feature may not be that usefull in US traffic where it is much less common to see these kind of merging patterns since it is ok to overtake on the right. But in European traffic it certainly is.

Now that you've explained it that way, I agree it's likely due to the differences in driving/traffic/enforcement patterns. Few states have really strict/draconian speed cameras on the highways, and the fines are much less than a county like Sweden. In California, for example, the police (especially in Southern California) give a pretty wide latitude in speeding, particularly if you're passing and the roads are relatively clear. Not all do this, but many police will give a pass up to about 10-15 mph over the limit if traffic is really light and you otherwise don't catch their eye. We have plenty of people who drive around like complete idiots that the police more than have their hands full. Honestly, I wish all of our driving tests were more like, say, Germany's. My guess is we'd lose at least half the drivers permanently and the rest would be much better behaved so that traffic would flow better.

 

[diplomat33]

Surprising that this feature is not well known in the American car world. It's pretty common for any car that has cruise control as well in Europe. It's not really anything to do with cruise control but it's basically a speed limiter : you are still in control and in charge of the speed through the pedal, the system will just limit your max speed to whatever you have it set. In dense but still fluid traffic it's a great feature to have. Standard cruise control wouldn't work since in such conditions obviously but adaptive cruise control is also problematic since you want to let the gap open and close dynamically on patterns around you, not just on the distance to your front runner. For example if a car on a different lane is signalling that it wants to merge you may want to let the gap open up to give them room. It's much easier to control those dynamics with the pedal than through a stalk or anything. But at the same time, the speed limiter will prevent you from getting caught up once the road is a bit clearer and you accelerate towards the next bunch of cars and going over the limit.

Now that I think of it, I can see how this feature may not be that usefull in US traffic where it is much less common to see these kind of merging patterns since it is ok to overtake on the right. But in European traffic it certainly is.

Honestly, I see this "speed limiter" as a bit primitive. You don't need a speed limiter when you have adaptive cruise control with speed limit recognition.

 

[Haddock]

Cruise Control is for level highways with at most gentle grades on hills. Where it fails, and notably has never been improved, is how it behaves when the car starts up steeper grades. Here the brain-dead CC downshifts and floors the accelerator in order to mindlessly maintain the same road speed. This is gross misbehavior that is contrary to most driver's reaction which would be to simply hold the pedal steady and climb the hill at a reduced speed (no downshifting, no roaring of the engine). If the hill continues most drivers will increase pedal a bit after the inevitable downshift so that the engine power increase is minimized. This is civilized driving and a CC that would allow for that might be called "Elastic CC" as opposed to the road speed based aggressive CC. That no manufacturer has offered an algorithm based CC is indicative of herd mentality of the worst sort. [end of rant]
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Yes this is annoying. It's a lot less annoying in a car with manual transmission, and a complete non-issue in an electric car.

 

[david_42]

My 2004 MB van's cruise control operates in much the same manner. Push the stalk down (or up) to set your speed, tap the brake to disengage, push up to resume the set speed. Our 2006 Kia is a bit different, button to turn on/off, down to set speed, tap brake to disengage, up to resume.

The van will down-shift to hold the set speed going down hill. The Kia won't.

 

[Skotty]

I'm having trouble even understand what this feature is supposed to do. Max speed mode is whatever you set cruise control to. Happens to be min speed mode too. With TACC, it will slow down for traffic, yes? So again, max speed mode is whatever you set cruise control to, and min is based on traffic. I don't really understand what more a "max speed mode" would do.

 

[Jim R]

I really want this to be controllable without letting go of the steering wheel. By modern I mean with a "max" mode like pretty much every new European car.

I love the max speed mode, where you set the limiter to your preferred speed and then just keep a safe distance to the other cars. When the road is clear you hit the pedal and it accelerates smoothly up to the limiter speed. Press through the pedal resistance to go over for some reason. It's such a relaxing way to drive - you pretty much never have to look at the speed indicator and you never get fines.

And before you say it: I don't trust AP and won't pay for it.

Oddly enough, my year 2000 Mercedes has a speed limiter as well as a cruise control. I don't remember seeing that feature on European cars I've rented in the past 5 years.

 

[Jim R]

I'm having trouble even understand what this feature is supposed to do. Max speed mode is whatever you set cruise control to. Happens to be min speed mode too. With TACC, it will slow down for traffic, yes? So again, max speed mode is whatever you set cruise control to, and min is based on traffic. I don't really understand what more a "max speed mode" would do.

Max speed mode (I call it speed limiter) is for when you want to vary your speed, such as in traffic when you have to, but not exceed a certain speed. Use it in the city, speed set at 30 MPH, or use it on a winding country road at 50 MPH when you have to slow for corners. As I said in another reply, this feature was found on my 2000 Mercedes. It's not something they retained with newer models.

 

[brkaus]

I fully understand. I think the "chime" speed limit may be an option.

I'm having a problem with calling it "modern"

 

[Jim R]

Cruise Control is for level highways with at most gentle grades on hills. Where it fails, and notably has never been improved, is how it behaves when the car starts up steeper grades. Here the brain-dead CC downshifts and floors the accelerator in order to mindlessly maintain the same road speed. This is gross misbehavior that is contrary to most driver's reaction which would be to simply hold the pedal steady and climb the hill at a reduced speed (no downshifting, no roaring of the engine). If the hill continues most drivers will increase pedal a bit after the inevitable downshift so that the engine power increase is minimized. This is civilized driving and a CC that would allow for that might be called "Elastic CC" as opposed to the road speed based aggressive CC. That no manufacturer has offered an algorithm based CC is indicative of herd mentality of the worst sort. [end of rant]
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Sure, there's some cars that operate that way. Modern high priced cars (we're comparing with Tesla, after all) don't do that. They are adequately powered and have many forward gears (some have 7, 8 or more). Speed is maintained uphill smoothly without the racing of the engine or dramatic downshifting. Down a steep grade my car maintains it's cruise control speed accurately too.