More anti-ev gibberish

[stopcrazypp]

The National Legal and Policy Center piece generally contains facts. Sure, it's opinionated, but then you all are participating in a thread that assumes that all critiques of EVs are "gibberish."

Cherry-picking is still a logical fallacy. You can write an entire article full of facts and still not have a valid argument. That's why journalists are taught to be "balanced" in order to avoid that.

And we aren't saying all criticism of EVs are "gibberish", we are listing the ones that we think are "gibberish" here.

 

[rsquared99]

Much more treasure (human and monitary) has been wasted supporting a harmful petroleum industry. Technology advances in fits and starts. Doing nothing simply delays any ultimate solution to a point where even more treasure is required to solve a problem. Ragging on one side of the equation, as does the NLPC, doesn't do anything to advance a solution. It simply continues to line the pockets of current technology leaders. Buggy whip and horseshoe manufactures would still be thriving industries if NLPC was around back then.

 

[lolachampcar]

Consensus requires understanding opinions that may not align with your own; in most cases, they will not. "Anti" EV articles are useful from my perspective in that they give me a view into the other side's thinking. Understanding their thinking lets me craft arguments that address their concerns. If they do the same, then reasonable people can come to an agreement.
Call me naive but I'm not a fan of the Carville/Rove school of driving wedges.

 

[JRP3]

I wonder what he'll say after driving an S? http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/judges-take-honeymoon-over-electric-vehicles

 

[lolachampcar]

"I can not afford this" I suspect.

 

[GSP]

The National Legal and Policy Center piece generally contains facts. Sure, it's opinionated, but then you all are participating in a thread that assumes that all critiques of EVs are "gibberish." Objectively, the jury is still out. And there's no question that much treasure has been wasted pursuing what are still, mostly, cost-inefficient green technologies and untried start-ups in high-tech, capital-intensive fields like battery, solar cell, and car manufacture.

I am a Tesla fan because Elon has insisted on trying to build the best car in the world, and is trying to sell it at a class-competitive price. Model S is not just a green car.

Even if the facts are correct, the logic is most definitely NOT. For example:

"In perhaps the most sickening example of government support for the Volt, NLPC reported in October that the State Department purchased the electric cars at a time when consulate security was obviously lacking."

What is "sickening" about the State department buying Volts? The Volt can be a great fleet vehicle. How do they compromise security compared to other cars?

There are many other examples, like GM moving Impala production to Hamtramck. This had nothing to do with the Volt or Malibu, which are also built there. Hamtramck is sized to produce multiple vehicles, and usually does so.

GSP

 

[EchoDelta]

Sometimes I want to reply to some SA posts and articles with nothing but quotes, and links to these:

Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies

example:
Your logical fallacy is slippery slope

i get a chuckle out of this site quite often.


on a separate note,

Objectively, the jury is still out. And there's no question that much treasure has been wasted pursuing what are still, mostly, cost-inefficient green technologies and untried start-ups in high-tech, capital-intensive fields like battery, solar cell, and car manufacture.

objective1 I see your point, but the choice of words is a bit deceiving. Treasure elicits the image of a huge proportion of the asset base, which is inaccurate and an appeal to emotion about the value of the money spent. In perspective - there is 1.8T annual spend on military and armament worldwide. 400B spent on advertisement. ExxonMobil annual *Profit* is 40B. Until we are spending more or less that amount of money, yearly, it is still a petty excuse for investment at both national and international levels.

"...since the mid-1990s energy R&D has accounted for only about 1% of all federal R&D investments." and renewables a cumulative of ~20B over the last 50 years!

Source: US DOE Report on U.S. Federal Investments in Energy R&D: 1961-2008 (Link)
The report goes on to describe how this energy investment, in turn, breaks down into basic, nuclear, gas, renewables, etc R&D. Remember this 1% also pays for reactor research, grid tech etc.
This is why I think the whole line of debate that green/renewable R&D is a 'significant expense' is false. (admittedly the data above is US only but I'm assuming the global R&D isn't orders of magnitude higher) Yes it is inefficient, risky, fraught with mismanagement, wildly experimental in business models, and exposed to sabotage - but for all its flaws it's not a significant investment from the perspective of civilization's portfolio.

Also, there is no good data I have seen that compares the capex of these technologies to the capex already sunk and being added on top of the non-renewables. Seems the latter should be more under scrutiny, we invested a lot of money on rigs and pipes on stuff that's going to run out.
There's over 3 million oil rigs in the world that will have to start finding alternate uses. Exxon Mobile alone has total assets for US$ 349.000 billion & Total equity US$ 154.396 billion.

That is a BUNCH of superchargers and then some.

 

[smorgasbord]

For someone who lives in a castle, I wonder how much he depends on the $1/100 page views (or whatever it is) for his income?

It appears JP has sold his antique furniture for pennies on the dollar and is moving out of the castle:
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1631091-axion-power-host/1434231-axion-power-concentrator-195-jan-8-axion-power-residential-energy-storage-hub-certified-to-ul-csa-safety-standards#comment-13488691
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1631091-axion-power-host/1434231-axion-power-concentrator-195-jan-8-axion-power-residential-energy-storage-hub-certified-to-ul-csa-safety-standards#comment-13491091

It's more than official at this point. We're on a plane before the market opens on Friday.

The move is far less complex than it could have been because we sold a houseful of antiques for a little under a dime on the dollar, but that's what happens when markets go south. We'll still fill the better part of a 20' container, but it beats the heck out of 40 or more. I hope our value equation is a little better than Iindelco's friend.

After spending a day with the movers in house packing my life, that photo is a great picture of my current mindset.

Sounds like he's moving to the Gulf Coast: http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/1631091-axion-power-host/1434231-axion-power-concentrator-195-jan-8-axion-power-residential-energy-storage-hub-certified-to-ul-csa-safety-standards#comment-13497461

 

[Robert.Boston]

I couldn't help myself and commented:

John, you could skip buying a Mac and simply treat yourself to a Tesla Model S -- a far better touchscreen than anything Apple sells. And when you're not surfing the net, you can be cruising the interstate!

 

[JRP3]

So who in Clearwater FL will be the first to offer him a ride in a Model S? :wink:

 

[Dan5]

I guess the brokers called in JP's TSLA shorts, but hey look on the bright side I'm guessing if he moves to Florida he's in the US so the people who bought AXPW based on his recommendations may be waiting with lawsuits... If I read the yahoo boards, there is a group named petersen_class_action.

 

[JRP3]

To be fair it might not be much of a lawsuit. AXPW has been gaining lately, and all my shares are in the green. :biggrin: I do take some small joy knowing my cost basis is lower than Petersen's.

 

[smorgasbord]

AXPW has been gaining lately...

Might want to get out before the next issuance of new shares to raise desperately needed cash.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah I'm not sure how to play that one since there are some potential orders coming as well. I'll see how this little run plays out in the short term.

 

[dpeilow]

Related BBC News - More Boeing Dreamliners grounded on safety concerns

 

[JRP3]

I'd say it's a reasonable reaction.

 

[Doug_G]

I'd say it was initially an underreaction. When the first incident happened on the ground, both Boeing and the regulators should have taken it more seriously. It was just a few days later that there was an incident in the air.

That's not to say that Lithium Ion batteries are intrinsically more dangerous than the enormous tanks of kerosene the plane is carrying. On the contrary. But there IS a serious flaw that should have been caught before the plane was put into service. Aircraft certification procedures are very through, as they should be. You can't pull over on the next cloud when something goes wrong, like you can in a car.

 

[dpeilow]

Are Right-Wing Libertarian Internet Trolls Getting Paid to Dumb Down Online Conversations? | Alternet

 

[smorgasbord]

"80% of the books I rate I haven't read"

 

[JRP3]

Are Right-Wing Libertarian Internet Trolls Getting Paid to Dumb Down Online Conversations? | Alternet

I wouldn't doubt it, I've seen it happen on Autoblog with certain topics. Of course I've been labeled a paid Tesla shill by some on other sites :biggrin: If only.