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More Model 3 changes and leasing now available

Sometimes we have to understand the meaning behind what someone says....not the literal of it.

My Model 3 is an investment into my happiness.....its not depreciating at all.

Lol I totally understand it does sting to see car prices drop etc... I see it like this even if value sink, as long as I am not 4-5k upside down on a luxury vehicle by the time I decide to sell/trade it I still view it as okay. Why? Cause no one put a gun to my head to get a vehicle I really don't need... I don't need a Tesla...I can have a honda or toyota for half the price fully loaded...but the enjoyment factor the tesla gives me...allows me to say hey... here take my MFFFFing money haha. If I can break even at 36 month whether leasing or buying I am happy...if I buy and I am down 3-5k after I am still fine... I will adjust as depreciation starts building. Its a luxury and I know damn well its on me to pay it..its not a necessity nor is it an investment.

Currently I lease a vehicle 517 a month + 200 in gas per month + 100 insurance that's 817 a month. The AWD with AP I am looking at will be about 900 a month including insurance..electric costs..etc its more than I currently pay but I am getting a much more advanced vehicle..much faster and more enjoyable in every way....so why not. I am giving more money to Tesla rather than the 200 I spend on Gas with current car..and I much rather would do that.
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,502
5,579
Colorado
Lol I totally understand it does sting to see car prices drop etc... I see it like this even if value sink, as long as I am not 4-5k upside down on a luxury vehicle by the time I decide to sell/trade it I still view it as okay. Why? Cause no one put a gun to my head to get a vehicle I really don't need... I don't need a Tesla...I can have a honda or toyota for half the price fully loaded...but the enjoyment factor the tesla gives me...allows me to say hey... here take my MFFFFing money haha. If I can break even at 36 month whether leasing or buying I am happy...if I buy and I am down 3-5k after I am still fine... I will adjust as depreciation starts building. Its a luxury and I know damn well its on me to pay it..its not a necessity nor is it an investment.

Currently I lease a vehicle 517 a month + 200 in gas per month + 100 insurance that's 817 a month. The AWD with AP I am looking at will be about 900 a month including insurance..electric costs..etc its more than I currently pay but I am getting a much more advanced vehicle..much faster and more enjoyable in every way....so why not. I am giving more money to Tesla rather than the 200 I spend on Gas with current car..and I much rather would do that.

Cap monthly car expenses to no more than 10% of monthly gross income and don't stress out about it.
 
Cap monthly car expenses to no more than 10% of monthly gross income and don't stress out about it.

I live and die by the 30% DTI for all expenses rule even if banks allow up to 40%. (car/mortgage/cards) or no more than 50% of your total annual income on a car loan.

It depends on location too.. I get to have a little more for my money cause I live in the Midwest. 15 year mortgage for 1347 a month for 2700sqft in a very nice area walk to anywhere in town. I laugh seeing how many friends have huge mortgages and can't afford a realiable car or even to enjoy places like california cause of the costs...its like yeyyy I live in California...yeyyy I have to work a 65-80 hours a week to afford a shack and I can't even enjoy the beautiful surroundings haha SMH.
 
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While the Tesla website showed $4150 down and $699 a month when I called Tesla and added my zip code and talked to a human it became about $6K down $780 a month. Three year lease LR 12K Miles a year on a 51K car.

We all have our personal mental limits and while that is something I can pull the trigger on I cannot justify it. Sure, filling my short term lease car up with gas is not the most fun thing, but, my life has gone on more than fine post Tesla ownership.

I will wait it out and take a look at the new Audi Q3 and it's pricing when it's released and see where things are then.
 
No, I don’t make well into six figures. I bought a $60k car because I believed in Tesla and I also believed that they would protect my investment. So unless you make less than $100k, bought a model 3, and the price is now at least $5k less, your opinion is not relevant to my points.

So you paid at minimum 60% of your annual income on a car? M'kay. As long as you believe in "The Mission", I guess.

I am not being elitist. I am saying Tesla needs to make a PROFIT, a term lost on so many people. Instead of barely going bankrupt every quarter and overestimating everything and selling everything at cost, here’s a novel idea, make a PROFIT.

Dude, saying "if you have $35K then you probably have $45K and thus $55K" is incredibly elitist. It's a statement made without any connection to the reality that a great many people live in whatsoever. That you can just dismiss it as "whatever" is a bit crass, to be honest.

I'll agree with you on one point, Tesla would have been massively better served by ensuring they were funded well enough to support this effort, and the most egregious error Elon has ever made was saying, "Here's our newest Tesla, you can buy it for $35K", without having any idea whether that would even be possible, at any date in the future. Lots of Tesla supporters are getting hung up on this price point (see below) as some sort of nebulous promise that Tesla sort of fulfilled, even though they don't think it's smart to, nor do they think Tesla has an obligation to. While completely ignoring the fact that it was hubris at best to announce they sell the car at $35K, or an outright lie at worst, designed to bring lots of press and deposits to a company that desperately needed it.

Tesla rushed the Model 3 to market as it was (see the complete lack of production validation that was done basically on the fly the first year) because the walls were closing in, both in terms of finances and competition. They had to strike when the iron was hot, and that's why they've been constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.

35K in 2016 money is a shade over 37K today.

Tesla can legitimately sell a 37K Model and claim it was the 35K car advertised. Is it late yes, but still here regardless.

The optics, people's ignorance at economics, the press, etc make this a non starter but the argument is is 100% valid.

This is a weak argument, and I think you know it. The car was promised at $35K in 2017, not "well basically an equivalent $37K in 2019."

The car is here, but not really. And Tesla truly wishes it wasn't. I've already said this in a couple places elsewhere but I'll spell it out for you here. There's proof that Tesla had no intention of building the SR, and that lies in the fact they never bothered to certify it. The SR+ presently has a certification, so it begs the question, if you were going to sell both, wouldn't you certify both at the same time? Especially for a variant of an already approved EV? Wouldn't that be like the easiest certification ever to apply for and receive?

No, they announced the SR and SR+ at the same time, certified only the SR+ and gave it a month or so in the hopes they could upsell any SR buyers to SR+ in the meantime. Any SR people who held out are now being given an SR+ with a few things turned off, and once they fill any existing orders it will be discontinued. And Tesla and people here will be able to say years later that they did sell a $35K, but "no one wanted it".

The $35K Model 3 does not exist, it's a $39K Model 3 being sold at a loss to satisfy a very small number of folks, including Elon himself, and possibly to avoid a class action lawsuit.

Elon's biggest blunder was announcing he would sell the Model 3 for $35K, which we can all agree now that he cannot profitably do.
 
While the Tesla website showed $4150 down and $699 a month when I called Tesla and added my zip code and talked to a human it became about $6K down $780 a month. Three year lease LR 12K Miles a year on a 51K car.

We all have our personal mental limits and while that is something I can pull the trigger on I cannot justify it. Sure, filling my short term lease car up with gas is not the most fun thing, but, my life has gone on more than fine post Tesla ownership.

I will wait it out and take a look at the new Audi Q3 and it's pricing when it's released and see where things are then.

I am coming from a 2017 Lincoln MKC. I pay 517 a month (this includes taxes, prop taxes) Then 100 a month for insurance. Then I spend 150-200 a month in gas. Total 800-850 a month on this vehicle. The AWD Tesla with AP I am looking at would be 850-900 a month all costs... sure I am paying a little more but the $200 I pay in gas on my Lincoln will go to the car payment rather than a gas company...this means I get more car for roughly same monthly costs compared to an IC vehicle
 
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voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,502
5,579
Colorado
So you paid at minimum 60% of your annual income on a car? M'kay. As long as you believe in "The Mission", I guess.



Dude, saying "if you have $35K then you probably have $45K and thus $55K" is incredibly elitist. It's a statement made without any connection to the reality that a great many people live in whatsoever. That you can just dismiss it as "whatever" is a bit crass, to be honest.

I'll agree with you on one point, Tesla would have been massively better served by ensuring they were funded well enough to support this effort, and the most egregious error Elon has ever made was saying, "Here's our newest Tesla, you can buy it for $35K", without having any idea whether that would even be possible, at any date in the future. Lots of Tesla supporters are getting hung up on this price point (see below) as some sort of nebulous promise that Tesla sort of fulfilled, even though they don't think it's smart to, nor do they think Tesla has an obligation to. While completely ignoring the fact that it was hubris at best to announce they sell the car at $35K, or an outright lie at worst, designed to bring lots of press and deposits to a company that desperately needed it.

Tesla rushed the Model 3 to market as it was (see the complete lack of production validation that was done basically on the fly the first year) because the walls were closing in, both in terms of finances and competition. They had to strike when the iron was hot, and that's why they've been constantly on the verge of bankruptcy.



This is a weak argument, and I think you know it. The car was promised at $35K in 2017, not "well basically an equivalent $37K in 2019."

The car is here, but not really. And Tesla truly wishes it wasn't. I've already said this in a couple places elsewhere but I'll spell it out for you here. There's proof that Tesla had no intention of building the SR, and that lies in the fact they never bothered to certify it. The SR+ presently has a certification, so it begs the question, if you were going to sell both, wouldn't you certify both at the same time? Especially for a variant of an already approved EV? Wouldn't that be like the easiest certification ever to apply for and receive?

No, they announced the SR and SR+ at the same time, certified only the SR+ and gave it a month or so in the hopes they could upsell any SR buyers to SR+ in the meantime. Any SR people who held out are now being given an SR+ with a few things turned off, and once they fill any existing orders it will be discontinued. And Tesla and people here will be able to say years later that they did sell a $35K, but "no one wanted it".

The $35K Model 3 does not exist, it's a $39K Model 3 being sold at a loss to satisfy a very small number of folks, including Elon himself, and possibly to avoid a class action lawsuit.

Elon's biggest blunder was announcing he would sell the Model 3 for $35K, which we can all agree now that he cannot profitably do.

Why don't you just be honest that you aren't happy because even though Tesla HAS delivered a $35,000 Model 3 (there is literally nothing stopping you from ordering one right now) they didn't deliver it in time to take advantage of the full tax credit.

There were a whole lot of people who thought they were going to get a Tesla for as little as $23,000 (Toyota Corolla money) with juicy federal and state tax credits and they are never going to get over it.

Tesla is a business, not a charity. If they go bust then all owners lose.

That matters to me a helluva lot more than someone crying crocodile tears over not getting their 'cheaper than a Kia' Tesla.
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,502
5,579
Colorado
I am coming from a 2017 Lincoln MKC. I pay 517 a month (this includes taxes, prop taxes) Then 100 a month for insurance. Then I spend 150-200 a month in gas. Total 800-850 a month on this vehicle. The AWD Tesla with AP I am looking at would be 850-900 a month all costs... sure I am paying a little more but the $200 I pay in gas on my Lincoln will go to the car payment rather than a gas company...this means I get more car for roughly same monthly costs compared to an IC vehicle

Best-21-im-sorry-memes-18.jpg
 
I am coming from a 2017 Lincoln MKC. I pay 517 a month (this includes taxes, prop taxes) Then 100 a month for insurance. Then I spend 150-200 a month in gas. Total 800-850 a month on this vehicle. The AWD Tesla with AP I am looking at would be 850-900 a month all costs... sure I am paying a little more but the $200 I pay in gas on my Lincoln will go to the car payment rather than a gas company...this means I get more car for roughly same monthly costs compared to an IC vehicle

I used this same idea when I got my S. Part of what goes into the calculation is obviously an enjoyment factor, etc.

I would also suggest you keep in mind electricity costs. I have noticed a sharp, obvious drop in my bills since leaving EV.

My gas costs is minimal right now. I simply do not drive that much anymore. If I did, maybe I could justify it with additional enjoyment factor.

Also, if the Q3 comes in lease wise (whenever they decide to release the thing) anywhere near these numbers I will surely consider the Tesla as well.

I loved my Tesla and I hope you enjoy it as well. It's a really fun car.
 
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Why don't you just be honest that you aren't happy because even though Tesla HAS delivered a $35,000 Model 3 (there is literally nothing stopping you from ordering one right now) they didn't deliver it in time to take advantage of the full tax credit.

There were a whole lot of people who thought they were going to get a Tesla for as little as $23,000 (Toyota Corolla money) with juicy federal and state tax credits and they are never going to get over it.

Tesla is a business, not a charity. If they go bust then all owners lose.

That matters to me a helluva lot more than someone crying crocodile tears over not getting their 'cheaper than a Kia' Tesla.

You call it for what it is man and I respect that! I am so tired of so many shorts and people complaining...like honestly.. please name me 1 ELECTRIC vehicle for the price of the SR + or even the now removed LR RWD that gives you what this MODEL 3 gives you... A LEAF? A VOLT? BOLT, KONA, Niro? Are you serious...sure all those can get you from point A to point B but SPEC any of those out to a STOCK MODEL 3 and see how much more expensive those other cars are compared to the model 3...hell even the LEAF has nothing on the LR RWD Model 3 in terms of price, and even less in terms of performance, automation in driving, etc... To me Model 3 is the least expensive of all of them because of what you get!!! You get AP, 240-300+ miles of range, heated seats all around the car, beautiful PANO roof...etc like am I the only one that sees this? Please someone go and SPEC a KONA, Niro, Leaf to match an M3 SR+ or M3 LR RWD not even close..I have seen Leafs spec up to like close to 50k.
 

Nocturnal

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,316
54,771
Deepening Crisis!
Because I am driving down the street and someone pulls up to me in the exact same looking car and brags that his car is $500 a month and mine is $1000 a month. I know that Tesla sold his car at a loss and sold mine at a profit. Every month I make my payment, several hundred dollars is going to him.

It’s basically car welfare.
Half price? Can I have some of what you are smoking?
 
Why don't you just be honest that you aren't happy because even though Tesla HAS delivered a $35,000 Model 3 (there is literally nothing stopping you from ordering one right now) they didn't deliver it in time to take advantage of the full tax credit.

There were a whole lot of people who thought they were going to get a Tesla for as little as $23,000 (Toyota Corolla money) with juicy federal and state tax credits and they are never going to get over it.

Tesla is a business, not a charity. If they go bust then all owners lose.

That matters to me a helluva lot more than someone crying crocodile tears over not getting their 'cheaper than a Kia' Tesla.

I honestly don't give a sh!t, because I'm not in the market for a Tesla.

Tesla is a business, yes, so you and I agree that they should not have announced the Model 3 at $35K, because they cannot deliver it profitably. My argument for a long time was that they knew they could not do so, possibly as far back as 2016, and thus the $35K car was a promise they had no intention to fulfill, that they used to get deposits. It's more than a bit shady, in my eyes.

They've satisfied the promise, but it won't last long, in my opinion. If you care about the company, you should hope it doesn't.
 

Nocturnal

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,316
54,771
Deepening Crisis!
The bottom line is that there are only two scenarios where you are better off leasing;

1. The car resale tanks. This always benefits someone who leased because they are insulated from swings in resale value.
2. The person who needs to fit into a monthly payment that accommodates a lease but not a purchase.

Merits vs foolishness of option #2 would be good fodder for a different discussion thread.
Leasing is also pretty tax advantageous for small businesses. I might have leased my P3D if I had the option for that very reason.
I honestly don't give a sh!t, because I'm not in the market for a Tesla.

Tesla is a business, yes, so you and I agree that they should not have announced the Model 3 at $35K, because they cannot deliver it profitably. My argument for a long time was that they knew they could not do so, possibly as far back as 2016, and thus the $35K car was a carrot they used to get buyers in the door. It's more than a bit shady, in my eyes.

They've satisfied the promise, but it won't last long, in my opinion. If you care about the company, you should hope it doesn't.
They announced a 35k Model 3. You can go buy one right now. That is meeting a promise, period. If it goes away next month it's still meeting the promise.
 
I used this same idea when I got my S. Part of what goes into the calculation is obviously an enjoyment factor, etc.

I would also suggest you keep in mind electricity costs. I have noticed a sharp, obvious drop in my bills since leaving EV.

My gas costs is minimal right now. I simply do not drive that much anymore. If I did, maybe I could justify it with additional enjoyment factor.

Also, if the Q3 comes in lease wise (whenever they decide to release the thing) anywhere near these numbers I will surely consider the Tesla as well.

I loved my Tesla and I hope you enjoy it as well. It's a really fun car.

Yeah I think EV is still only justified if you drive 15-20k miles per year...at that point you would save a ton of money per year. Where I live electric cost would be about 30-45 per month for the tesla if I drove about 15k miles. I also have a supercharger 1.5 miles away and I am planning on using that $1000 supercharger credit for first year haha
 
15 year mortgage for 1347 a month for 2700sqft in a very nice area walk to anywhere in town. I laugh seeing how many friends have huge mortgages and can't afford a realiable car or even to enjoy places like california cause of the costs...its like yeyyy I live in California...yeyyy I have to work a 65-80 hours a week to afford a shack and I can't even enjoy the beautiful surroundings haha SMH.

I'd need to make more money than I do in California to be able to live in Missouri. It's the only way I'd be able to afford to fly somewhere every weekend with an acceptable climate and things to do besides people-watching at walmart.

(See how fun being smug over stupid crap can be?)
 

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