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More Superchargers - Charging is our Priority

Discussion in 'Canada' started by wayner, Apr 24, 2017.

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  1. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    There has been some discussion on this in some of the existing threads but this is something that is more of a global basis. Today Tesla announced that they are substantially increasing the network of SCs - see the blog post here: Charging Is Our Priority

    This includes putting a lot more SCs in urban areas - "In addition, many sites will be built further off the highway to allow local Tesla drivers to charge quickly when needed, with the goal of making charging ubiquitous in urban centers." From the maps it likes like this could include roughly three additional SCs for both Toronto and Montreal. See the Eastern and Western threads for additional details.

    But still no SCs in SK or the Maritimes.
     
  2. Blazing Whisper

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    When I opened up the new planned Supercharger map to Toronto, I automatically went to go turn off destination chargers since I thought they were on. They weren't. This is incredible.
     
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  3. doubeld

    doubeld Member

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    It sure is. It's just a shame that they can't even foresee completion of the Trans Canada Highway within a year yet they can dump a half dozen NEW SCs around the GTA?
    Just guessing here... they have one site-selection team/people for Western Canada and several in Eastern Canada? Site selection team can throw darts at a map and get a general idea of how many they need for BASIC long-distance transportation needs. For regional site-selection, one person could figure this out with highway traffic info from the provinces/municipalities and some big data from Tesla HQ. That same person could probably then do a road trip to find best exact locations. This doesn't seem too hard. Sheeeit, give me a Tesla with unlimited miles and I could have AB, SK and MB site selection and contractors hired before December.

    What's the holdup? Electricity demand charges? Permitting? Don't tell me it's numbers, since they already have SIX interstate routes lined up (5 already basically complete).
     
    • Like x 1
  4. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    The holdup may be the cost as to facilitate the T-Can for winter driving would require SCs around every 200km given the much lower range in -20C temps. And they have a lot of ground to cover from Sudbury to Winnipeg even without considering the rest of the prairies.
     
  5. doubeld

    doubeld Member

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    Cost? You're telling me that the boat load of Superchargers in the GTA is a great economical investment compared to getting the prairies linked up?

    Calgary --> Brooks 198km
    Brooks --> Medicine Hat 104km
    Medicine Hat --> Swift Current 226km
    Swift Current --> Regina 239km
    Regina --> Whitewood 184km
    Whitewood --> Brandon 190km
    Brandon --> Winnipeg 210km.

    Each of those locations only need 4 stalls MAX. Each of those locations are basically rural and the lease/locations fees would be fractions of what you'd pay in any city.

    Between Port Hope and Grimsby (Which is only 190km I might add), I see TEN new Super Chargers. In a very expensive urban environment.

    Small towns and businesses in these small towns would be ALL over having a SC station there. How much does Tesla have to pay to get an 8 stall SC in downtown Toronto?
     
    • Like x 1
  6. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    Tesla's new priority seems to be urban SCs. Perhaps they have changed their mind about people using local SCs. And some people in Toronto may not be able to have charging at home due to parking on the street or living in an EV-unfriendly condo. Plus there are lots of Teslas in Toronto today and they likely know where much of the new demand will come from in 2017-9 as the know where Model 3 orders have come from. I agree that it seems a bit much for the Toronto area, but presumably they have their logic.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Navsarin

    Navsarin SP100D

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    I believe Tesla is also considering the number of future of model 3 owners/orders in the GTA and golden horseshoe area vs other parts of the country. With model 3, we may be looking at 10x the number of Teslas on the road...all as potential revenue generators for the supercharger network and thus their decision may be as much a profit based one as any company seeking to recover the costs of building and operating a new network or service.

    With unlimited supercharging removed off all new S/X orders and in all model 3's at this point, one could imagine the board room discussions about future revenue potential vs upfront outlay. Which Superchargers would become the most 'profitable'?

    Unfortunately I wish Tesla would take more of a balanced approach and make their business decisions on other only the almighty dollar.

    If they did, one could probably see more stations in rural areas.

    My 2 cents...
     
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  8. iKhalid

    iKhalid Member

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    What's changing the formula is the fact that supercharging is no longer "free". It's no longer a facility for longer trips because Tesla finally realised they cannot fight the fact that many owners won't be able to charge at home, or just won't.

    This is a good thing, since:
    1. They will expand their customer base: people who live in condos won't have an excuse not to buy a Tesla. Looking at the GTA map right now supports my point, I think.
    2. The charging infrastructure will change from being a pure cost to a source of revenue.
     
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  9. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I think you may be right but if that's the case then we should be seeing a lot more SCs in the city. There wouldn't be nearly as much demand from condo owners/ street parkers in Pickering, Brampton, etc. as there will be from within the old CofT. They could be providing some useful parking in the city for those of us with free charging!
     
  10. sakimano

    sakimano Member

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    For whatever reason I can't see this proposed map on my phone. Is it desktop only? Anyone have a screenshot?
     
  11. agloutney

    agloutney Member

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  12. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    The other thing to remember regarding all of the new SCs in Ontario, Quebec and BC is that these three provinces are generous in providing tax incentives for people to buy EVs. I started a thread on this and posted the graph below. These incentives have lead to essentially all of the EVs in Canada being in those three provinces with a small smattering in AB. And the other thing is that the electricity generation is cleaner in those provinces. EVs in some provinces, like AB, SK and NS, are essentially powered by coal. So maybe Tesla should first work on selling solar panels in those provinces first - after all SK is the best place in Canada for solar panels.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. f-stop

    f-stop Member

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    yeah on mobile it seems to only load the search page, not the map itself.
    and on desktop the map is zoomable, so screenshot of the whole thing may be of limited value but anyhow FWIW here you go... lots of new grey "coming soon" pins:
    Screen Shot 2017-04-24 at 5.32.35 PM.jpg
     
  14. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    This is amazing, even if it's 2 years from now till completion.

    I know some want to be able to drive coast to coast in Canada, but I think they are doing the right thing by trying to not have congestion along popular routes, while also catering to apt dwellers who are willing to pay for their daily charging.
     
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  15. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    Overall, I am impressed that Tesla "gets it". The Supercharger network is absolutely critical in ev adoption. We can argue over particular decisions, but overall this is great, great news.
     
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  16. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I'm a little concerned about the sustainability.

    Just doing some rough numbers... I heard that a typical SC install runs about $200K. Making some WAG assumptions that Tesla needs 3 year payback on capital and keeps 3 cents per kwhr of power (past cost of power and maintenance) that means that Tesla needs to bill for over 6000 kwh of charging each day... or a hundred 60 kwhr charges. That seems like an awful lot.
     
  17. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    In California there are many Supercharger locations that see far more cars charging per day than that. As Tesla sells more cars, and Model 3 production ramps, that kind of usage figure will be normal.

    I bet the Toronto-Lawrence Ave Supercharger sees well over a hundred cars a day right now.
     
  18. hingisfan

    hingisfan hingisfan_Mark_V

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    Also, S and X sales will continue to help fund as they have his margins. And why would they need a 3 year payback? Make it 6 and the numbers look much better.
     
  19. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that the physical Superchargers and some overheads will be paid for by the network joining fee (currrently baked into the S/X price). 200 cars at $1k per car = $200k.
     
  20. wayner

    wayner Active Member

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    I hope Tesla also realizes that they are going to also need a lot more Service Centres. In Ontario alone they are increasing the number of Supercharger locations from roughly 10 to 30. Presumably they will also need to increase the number of Service Centres by a similar amount.
     
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