Motor Trend's Head 2 Head Ep. 54: 2014 Tesla Model S vs 2014 Mercedes-Benz S550!

[jonnylieberman]

They were really shiny

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

They were really shiny

ok. ok. joke's over, how much acid did you take? :tongue:



ok these are the 2 main issues I have after watching the video again

1-one of these cars IS better than the other
&
2-new school vs the school

1 not at all
&
2 schools have changed quite a bit in the Bay Area over the past 10-20 years...

fear change much? the school where I went and took actual pencil drafting at dropped it the year after and now teaches gene splicing and DNA manipulation.


and what is better about the S550 again? still missed that part. driving without hands? now we have guardrail every where and rumble strips everywhere because of inattentive drivers. pay the f attention.

 

[Jaff]

Whilst I agree with you up to a point about MT being a car magazine as opposed to an environmental journal, I have to side with artsci on this matter...the fact is, the MB is a socially (environmental) irresponsible choice...If we continue to let car magazines off the hook on this issue, it will slow down the adoption of EV's in general...

I'm glad they do not actually. It's a car magazine, not a climatology review magazine. Tesla needs to make the best cars, period. That means they drive the best, look the best, are priced fairly, etc. If you have to rely on "being green" to sell cars you've lost. If you want to "be green" you should buy a 30-year old Geo Metro as the environmental impact of that is way less than all the batteries, aluminum, and electronics in a Model S. Or you should ride a bicycle

I agree the reviewer was weirdly swayed by the interior and I encounter people all the time who are in the "if it doesn't make lots of noise it isn't fast" camp and the only way to sway those people is to blow their doors off w/ the performance of the car, not making eco arguments.

 

[apacheguy]

Jonny - Thanks for coming on here to address our concerns with your review.

First off, let me begin by saying that I might be considered one of the more critical members of this forum towards Tesla. However, I am also a huge proponent of EVs and I've come to prefer them over ICE cars. EVs are not just as convenient, but more convenient than an ICE. Reason is that I wake up every morning with a full tank and never have to think about making a pit stop at a gas station. That saves me a considerable amount of time every day. Now, to that end:

1. You claim that you experience range anxiety when you had ~60 miles remaining. In over 27,000 miles of driving, I have only experienced range anxiety once. Maybe in some rare cases where a commute is at the fringe of the Model S's ability I could meet you half way and agree on that. But with 60 miles left? Sorry, I just don't see it.

2. What's up with the interior? Sure MB might have better quality upholstery and buttons and lights galore, but to be honest I prefer the clean look of the Tesla interior. Sure some people prefer that look and sure the seats might be more comfortable. But can you really recommend a car purely based on its interior quality?

3. The MB is slower, gets crap gas mileage, is not cutting edge nor innovative in its design, and does not achieve the highest safety rating in America.

Help me out, what am I missing?

 

[strider]

Whilst I agree with you up to a point about MT being a car magazine as opposed to an environmental journal, I have to side with artsci on this matter...the fact is, the MB is a socially (environmental) irresponsible choice...If we continue to let car magazines off the hook on this issue, it will slow down the adoption of EV's in general...

I feel it's a double-edged sword. You may well turn off as many people as you turn on with talk of climate change. It's just too polarizing of an issue. I didn't buy Tesla's because I wanted to save the earth. I bought them because nothing can compare to the driving experience and total package. It's just a better way to drive - gobs of torque, no shifting, low CG (for Model S anyway), rear-facing seats and frunk due to EV packaging, etc.

You also can't get into the green aspects because it's so dependent on where you live and where your power comes from. You live in Canada and you all have lots of hydro power. That's some super clean power although you're murdering or preventing the spawning of millions of fish every year with your dams (I say that with tongue in cheek but do you see how the topic has quickly left the realm of cars and now goes down the rat hole of fish ladders and other things that have nothing to do with cars?). But for someone in a heavy coal area the math flips and a modern diesel is arguably cleaner than an EV. Then what about nuclear? Great for CO2 but we still don't have a good plan for dealing with the waste. So which is "more green" then?

And you have to re-visit the role of "trusted advisor" where you ascribe some kind of expert status to the person doing the reviewing and so can trust their judgements. Would you take advice on what TV to buy from Bon Appetite? It's the same thing. Auto journalists have no credibility when talking about the environment.

All that to say, I firmly believe that issues of the environment will never win over an auto enthusiast. EVs will have to be better cars if they want to win (or wait for the oil to run out).

 

[tomas]

I feel it's a double-edged sword. You may well turn off as many people as you turn on with talk of climate change. It's just too polarizing of an issue. I didn't buy Tesla's because I wanted to save the earth. I bought them because nothing can compare to the driving experience and total package. It's just a better way to drive - gobs of torque, no shifting, low CG (for Model S anyway), rear-facing seats and frunk due to EV packaging, etc.

You also can't get into the green aspects because it's so dependent on where you live and where your power comes from. You live in Canada and you all have lots of hydro power. That's some super clean power although you're murdering or preventing the spawning of millions of fish every year with your dams (I say that with tongue in cheek but do you see how the topic has quickly left the realm of cars and now goes down the rat hole of fish ladders and other things that have nothing to do with cars?). But for someone in a heavy coal area the math flips and a modern diesel is arguably cleaner than an EV. Then what about nuclear? Great for CO2 but we still don't have a good plan for dealing with the waste. So which is "more green" then?

And you have to re-visit the role of "trusted advisor" where you ascribe some kind of expert status to the person doing the reviewing and so can trust their judgements. Would you take advice on what TV to buy from Bon Appetite? It's the same thing. Auto journalists have no credibility when talking about the environment.

All that to say, I firmly believe that issues of the environment will never win over an auto enthusiast. EVs will have to be better cars if they want to win (or wait for the oil to run out).

True, dat. And, echoing what other's have said, what's the shame in being compared to what otherwise would be hands down world's best luxury sedan and coming up close but short in one journalist's opinion? Not bad for less than 2 years on the market! How many years did MB have to refine their S class car to just barely and debatably beat out the rookie?

Having said that, there is one common issue with most auto journalist Model S reviews/tests. The journalists just don't (and cannot) have the EV charging rhythm nailed down, while the gassing up paradigm is instinctive through years of training. Fact is, except in most rare situations, EV owners MUST have sufficient amps to recharge over night every night. You cannot live on 110/12 and you cannot trust the "miles remaining" number on ANY car - ICE or EV - until you've gotten to know the car over time and circumstances.

 

[dsm363]

Even people who spend $100k on a car don't like to waste money usually. If you can convince them charging at home actually works and you can out accelerate and perform their luxury sedan for 80% less in fuel costs, that will start to resonate with more and more people. Just imagine what will happen during the next oil crisis with gas lines. All of a sudden the EV drivers will look like geniuses. You usually know the people the 'green' argument won't work with so push homemade energy, the American built angle and national security. That at least deserves a mention in an automotive review even if it isn't used as a factor in deciding which is the better car.

 

[artsci]

I feel it's a double-edged sword. You may well turn off as many people as you turn on with talk of climate change. It's just too polarizing of an issue.
All that to say, I firmly believe that issues of the environment will never win over an auto enthusiast. EVs will have to be better cars if they want to win (or wait for the oil to run out).

While I understand the argument that people will be turned off by talk about climate change, people had better learn soon to change their behavior and choices or the planet will make us all irrelevant. It doesn't care about the politics or whether people are turned on off by the bad news of climate change. It just follows the laws of physics, which right now are not on humanity's side. Strider is right. Given that ICE's are a major source of the problem, we can't continue to let car magazines off the hook on this issue, especially when they give adoring praise to gas guzzlers like the MB.

 

[iadbound]

Just sat in a Model S followed immediately (15 minutes or so) by sitting in an S550 (just sitting in both, not actually moving). The S550 is certainly more luxurious: the seats are like gigantic lounge chairs, the leather oozes quality, the wood is gorgeous, and it has a nice panoramic roof too. However, the S550 feels cluttered compared to the minimalist approach of the Tesla interior. For example, the S550 has side-by-side screens and a zillion buttons, but you still need to control at least one of the screens with a little knob on the center console. And despite being huge and weighing more than the Tesla, the S550 had very little storage area compared to the Model S.

Where Tesla could improve, however, is in the touch and feel of the materials it is using in the cabin. It could stand to look more closely at MB and Lexus on this point. I'm not suggesting that Tesla radically change the interior, it just needs to make the quality of the Model S interior components more like other cars that range in price from $70,000 to $130,000.

In addition, the lack of a good center console is just silly at this point. Every other car I've been in recently (and i've been in a lot) has figured this out, and Tesla needs to get this right -- especially since so many here seem to be waiting for the center console to be delivered.

Last but not least, and this wasn't covered in the head-to-head, but for all the fancy media capabilities built into the Model S (not to mention the amazing control screen), Tesla needs to get better media integration going with the iPhones, Androids, etc. Bluetooth alone won't cut in the long run. I am assuming 6.0 will improve the situation.

 

[Amped-Up]

Thanks Jonny for putting your opinion out there and then stepping up to the firing line. I respect that.

The greatest agreement with your review seems to be with the interior fit & finish. And I would agree in terms of luxury materials, superb execution and finessed detailing. The limousine lights though are really bizarre and tacky IMO. Nonetheless - the MS interior I would best describe as "austere". Not that that is necessarily a bad thing - remember Mies van der Rohe "Less is More". The MS lines are cleaner, edgier, more South Beach than Palm Beach. Still, since I'm on crutches for a couple months, I would have appreciated the "hang-on" interior handle over the doors. Also a clever coat hook would be a nice touch when I pick-up from the dry cleaners. The seats are hard, not like the ones in the Volvo's or MB E-Class that I've owned. Adaptive cruise control is a good add-on -took me awhile to get used to it on the Acura MDX but now I love it for the long rides. Don't mind the lack of a console, thought I would. Now I'm forced to be neater. It holds my Tesla Cap (don't leave home without it!) and my phone and wallet. That's it.

However also as many have pointed out - the interior alone does not make the automobile. Nor does price. The Tesla is expensive. But there are reasons why - conomies of scale and new technology being two improtant ones. But you have to agree Jonny that for you to be comparing the MS to the S550 is like a David and Goliath story. And remember who wins. Tesla has caused a paradigm shift - all-electic, high performance, great looks, respectable range, and American-made. And that disruption is worth so much more in the larger picture than a powerful, gussied-up land yacht. What counts in the long run is how we enter the future - and in the case of Tesla - we have the wheels.

Last point Jonny - a Tesla Model S P85 and a MB S550 pull into a parking lot. Who get's the girl (or guy as the case might be)?? Got to concede that point dontcha?! Cheers!

 

[Jaff]

Agree completely artsci!

While I understand the argument that people will be turned off by talk about climate change, people had better learn soon to change their behavior and choices or the planet will make us all irrelevant. It doesn't care about the politics or whether people are turned on off by the bad news of climate change. It just follows the laws of physics, which right now are not on humanity's side. Strider is right. Given that ICE's are a major source of the problem, we can't continue to let car magazines off the hook on this issue, especially when they give adoring praise to gas guzzlers like the MB.

- - - Updated - - -

a Tesla Model S P85 and a MB S550 pull into a parking lot. Who get's the girl (or guy as the case might be)?? Got to concede that point dontcha?! Cheers!

Go one step further to show Jonny that he picked the wrong vehicle...

Offer every Model S owner the chance to switch cars...straight up...your current Model S for a brand new, fully loaded MB 550...what percentage of Model S owners would switch?...I'd bet it wouldn't be more than a tenth of 1% ...

Now, offer the MB 550 owners, or any comparably priced ICE vehicle owner a chance to "live with a Model S" (properly instructed on it's operation and set their garages up with the ability for an adequate Level II charge) for a month...how many would gladly "defect" to the Model S...I'd bet a minimum of 15-20 %...

If these numbers are even close to being correct, then Jonny's wrong...

 

[Robert.Boston]

The difficulty with any "head to head" comparison is that there's no objective criterion for the winner.

Jonny acknowledges that the Model S has better performance metrics than the MB S, which by traditional gear-head metrics would make it the winner.

The Model S and MB S have similar cost-to-buy, but that's the wrong metric: cars provide a stream of automotive services, so what matters is the cost-per-mile, inclusive of fuel and maintenance costs. Clearly the Model S wins on this metric.

Jonny could have made a stronger case about the dominance of the MB S in safety / automation / etc. Instead, he treats this important (and costly) feature of the MB as a "gee whiz! Look Mom, no hands!" gadget. This area, though, is the one where I see MB having an unambiguous and important lead over the Model S, at least for some consumers. Personally, I hate 'nanny' features in a car, and my wife doesn't even use cruise control on long empty stretches of highways.

Jonny seems to make the final decision based not merely on aesthetics, but just the interior aesthetics (he concedes that the Model S is much better looking on the outside). But this metric is so subjective -- look at how differently people decorate their homes (even on the pages of Architectural Digest). In some fairness, the quality of the materials in the MB is higher, but whether the resulting "university club" look is better than the Bauhaus-inspired Tesla design is better? That's a judgment call.

In summary, on the plus side:

• MB
  • Faster refueling
  • Advanced safety features
  • More variety of higher grade interior materials
• Tesla
  • Lower total cost of ownership
  • Superior performance and handling
  • Much more cargo space
  • Higher safety rating

When you line things up this way, it's hard to see how an impartial reviewer ends up giving the nod to the MB.

 

[dsm363]

Agree with Robert. I don't care how nice the interior if it cost $12,600 a year to fuel (200 miles a day times 5 days a week for 48 weeks with $4.20 a gallon). He said he drove 250-300 miles so discounting some miles there. If those daily long drives were along Supercharger routes then you're talking about extra time each day but significant savings a year. Over 5 years you're talking about a $50,000 savings. That buys a custom leather interior upgrade to the Model S and you'd still come out ahead.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

The Tesla Model S says "I care about something other than myself."

The Mercedes S Class says "I'm an oil sheik!"

 

[Shumdit]

Agree with Robert. I don't care how nice the interior if it cost $12,600 a year to fuel (200 miles a day times 5 days a week for 48 weeks with $4.20 a gallon). He said he drove 250-300 miles so discounting some miles there. If those daily long drives were along Supercharger routes then you're talking about extra time each day but significant savings a year. Over 5 years you're talking about a $50,000 savings. That buys a custom leather interior upgrade to the Model S and you'd still come out ahead.

Realistically not a ton of people drive a 200 miles a day every day, but your point is understood. Even at 50 miles a day you are still talking well over $10000 in gasoline spent although electricity isn't free so you have to offset that somewhat (unless you are on solar,use Superchargers,etc.
The more significant cost savings will show up when you pay for all of the service and repairs on that mercedes. I own one so I speak from experience.

 

[M67v]

You betcha! Buttons galore and disco lights rule.

Oh please

- - - Updated - - -

This video was horrendous.

 

[svp6]

Let me say first that I ordered a Tesla not an S-class, so my personal choice is obvious (and at a price that I could have a very nicely configured S-class). That being said, I think the road to improvement starts with acknowledging the problems. It serves no purpose to blindly believe Tesla is superior in every way.

1. As others pointed out, the seats could be more comfortable. Laugh if you want, but I like my massage chair feature in my BMW 650; I find it relaxing for long rides - and my back hurts less with this on. It is true Tesla improved to a certain degree (first time I drove a Model S 1 year ago I instantly eliminated it as a possibility because the very stiff seat). While improved, current seats are not even close to the S-class or A6/7 and BMW 6/7 series. I hope the promised new generation seats will not cost an arm and a leg to retrofit.

2. Tesla has to improve in driver-assist features, and whether you like it or not, MB is class-leader in this segment. I will sorely miss my BMW birds-eye view for parking (especially with such a big car) and to a lesser degree blind-spot detector. Cross traffic warning would be nice too (my BMW does not have it, and I nearly missed couple of time backing into speeding idiots in supermarket parking lots). Lane departure I don't use much, it's too sensitive. Never had adaptive cruise, but I imagine I would like it.

3. Finally, AWD for winter is awesome, and will be the biggest challenge for me; thankfully Tesla is bringing it, but too late for me.

I think encouragement with a hint of open-minded criticism is what Tesla needs in order to become mainstream. Looking forward to taking delivery in December.

My $0.02

 

[jcaspar]

Motortrend is very anti American cars. I remember in 2011 when they compared the M3 to the Mustang GT. Mustang out accelerated, out braked and pulled more g's then the M3. They even mentioned you could buy a GT and another base Mustang for the price of the M3. Guess what they picked....

 

[Tasdevil]

They even mentioned you could buy a GT and another base Mustang for the price of the M3. Guess what they picked....

Because a premium European sports car is on a totally different level to a muscle car.

If tesla based their cars more off American muscle than European styling, they would not have sold as well.
("but it out performs a Porsche." "Nope, still wouldn't have picked it")

 

[Dchint]

Motortrend is very anti American cars. I remember in 2011 when they compared the M3 to the Mustang GT. Mustang out accelerated, out braked and pulled more g's then the M3. They even mentioned you could buy a GT and another base Mustang for the price of the M3. Guess what they picked....

Motortrend isn't always anti American cars....Model S changed that...

2014 Tesla Model S P85+ vs. 2014 BMW i8 Comparison - Motor Trend Page 2