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Motor wear and tear - during Get Amped circuit

Discussion in 'Technical' started by SCW-Greg, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    No doubt there's some answers to this already, via Roadster or other custom EVs pushing the experience. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnCgW5tSsc

    But I'm curious about breaking in an electric motor. More-over how hundreds of people over the course of a Get Amped weekend constantly dumping all that juice into motor to test the max acceleration while the car is loaded down with 3, 4, or 5 adults sitting in it (along with a ~4500 lb car). No doubt straining the motor to do its job. And then they take the same car to the next city to lather, rinse, and repeat. Great real world testing for our cars, btw.

    And while I'm certain the tech guys at Tesla have factored this load in to the build...

    Does the massive amounts of current being dumped into the motor, accelerate wire wear? Or what about the gear loads? to the point that a future owner's manual may suggest any kind of a break-in period, or other suggest proper care of your Model S motor?
     
  2. smorgasbord

    smorgasbord Active Member

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    Since there is no contact there's nothing to break in. Go to a Tesla store and spin the motor for yourself.
     
  3. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    I understand electric motors pretty well, since I was 14 creating my own motor/inverters models. The flow of electricity does eventually wear down some electronics (not saying this), electricity is still arcing/flowing through there at some level.

    I was just thinking of the loads on this scale (and looking how thin those wires were in the floor demo), and it just made me wonder. It could be a total non-event, but it's just one of those things that piqued me.
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I feel sorry for the tires!

    Hopefully the battery cells are up to the task...

    Not so worried about the motor.
     
  5. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I think the tire-wear is indeed the worst.

    The batteries should be fine as well as long as they are kept cool.

    Same for the motor, as long as the cooling system is doing it's job their won't be that much to worry about.

    The Roadster is a different story though, that motor tends to overheat rather quickly when you're toying with it. That's due to the air-cooling it has versus the liquid-cooling in the Model S. You can feel the Roadster loosing power when the motor starts heating up.
     
  6. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    In my experience you have to worry more about the inverter than the motor. They normally fail first. Integrated circuits fail before copper wires most of the time.
     
  7. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    They did a LOT of long-term extreme testing to try to overload and overheat the system (they learned from the Roadster). And even with the Roadster overheating and reducing power or shutting down in those same extreme conditions, they've weathered just fine. The Model S, being liquid-cooled, should fare even better.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Fans with brushes and capacitors are often the problem areas...
    I think the electrolyte in capacitors can eventually break down. And brushes in DC motors wear down...
    A failing cooling fan can cause other components to fail due to overheating.
    Thankfully model S has a liquid cooled inverter too, so it should be immune to the problems some Roadster had with the cooling fan and air passages getting clogged with debris.

    ICE cars tended to use belts off of the idling engine to run accessory pumps (such as water pump, air conditioning pump, power steering pump, etc.) Modern hybrids tend to use small electric motors to power these things now since the gas engine can shut off sometimes. So, even without EVs, the hybrids have help develop good quality aux pump motors. Hopefully Model S has really high quality electric motors on the accessories. For instance you never want the pump to fail that circulates coolant through the battery/inverter/motor.

    My old RangerEV had a 12V DC coolant pump which is a common failure item. Ideally the aux pump motors would be higher voltage AC parts. I am fairly sure they do that for the air conditioning compressor, but not sure about the coolant pump...
     
  9. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    with both the Leaf's we have owned, it does appear that there is some kind of break-in period where the efficiency increases, but I doubt it's the motor. It was hard to track as the temperature fluctuations also effect efficiency on the Leaf. Wheel bearings maybe, and maybe even the battery gets conditioned a bit on the Leaf over the first 5K miles from what we experienced ... have no idea how that equates with the S but thought I'd put it out there.
     
  10. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    Are those still in common use ? I though most all fans (at least of a certain quality) were BLDC now ?
     
  11. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  12. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    Yeah, those others doesn't matter as they only run for a fraction of the time. Fans often run full time, like my bathroom vent fans. Thankfully, they're BLDC.
     
  13. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    Off topic for a moment - Hats off to a fellow Norsk! My last name is "Sande" My great Grandfather was from Norway. :)
     
  14. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

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    :)

    I think there are quite a few norwegians here, we are after all Teslas second largest market after the US. My guess is we have about 500 reservations here now.
     
  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    The only motors that might need a break in period are brushed motors. The brushes need to wear to seat properly on the commutator and they need to lay down a film for good power transfer. AC induction and BLDC motors have no break in period, though the system may gain some efficiency over time as bearings and gears wear a bit. Get in and hammer it if you want.
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Gears may have burrs and other imperfections that wear down when first used.
    I tend to go easy on any new car at first because of this.
    I also do my first fluid change (including gearbox oil) early just because of concern that some manufacturing contaminants can be in there at first.
    Also keep in mind that brand new tires can be traction limited due to mold release compound. It is a good idea to put a couple of hundred easy miles on them before you test them in a hard braking situation where it matters.
    Tire Tech Information - Breaking In Your Tires
     
  17. SCW-Greg

    SCW-Greg Active Member

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    I thinks this makes perfect sense. Good advice. Better to baby it before starting to drop the pedal to the metal (too much). ;)
     
  18. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    On the other hand I'd expect Tesla to do some full power testing on each car before delivery.
     
  19. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Yeah, but they can't catch everything in the amount of time they have.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Actual measurements on the 2004 Prius by owners indicate that the contaminants in the engine oil are gone after 250 miles (Yes, someone actually tested the oil every 50 miles for 500 miles) so a change at 500 miles gets rid of them.

    In addition, mounting lubricant may not be dry and the tires can spin on the wheel. Best to take it easy for the first 300 to 500 miles.
     

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