In what parallel universe was this not an impressive showing by the Performance Model 3?
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In what parallel universe was this not an impressive showing by the Performance Model 3?
300 treadwear performance tires on the Tesla 3 vs 60 treadwear DOT legal R compound tires on the Alfa.
Thats not even in the same ballpark. Put the P3D+ on race rubber and see what happens, or put the Alfa on 300 Treadwear tires and that'll be a fair comparison.
Thats not even in the same ballpark. Put the P3D+ on race rubber and see what happens, or put the Alfa on 300 Treadwear tires and that'll be a fair comparison.
chickensworth
Member
whoa guys...I know i'm not winning any arguments on this one...
The Tesla with still unavailable Track Mode came in second place... against a stock Alfa on stock tires.
"We could do that time if we were willing to destroy our tires..." is the definition of an excuse... just because it may be true doesn't change the fact that the Model 3 lost in the Lap (objective evaluation) and the Alfa was declared the better car overall (Subjective and arguable at best). Sure... lets see them on the same shoes and maybe the results would come out the other way... maybe not... but this is a comparison between 2 production cars with the same driver. I'm not saying it wasn't an impressive showing, but i'd rather see a win... as i'm sure most others on this board would have liked to see.
List of Streets of Willow lap times.
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap times - FastestLaps.com
AT 1:23.90 P3D is way up there, and it costs a lot less than most of the cars at that performance range.
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap times - FastestLaps.com
AT 1:23.90 P3D is way up there, and it costs a lot less than most of the cars at that performance range.
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chickensworth
Member
Definitely a great time by the M3P. I wish they had tested them at the Big track at Willow Springs as well. The Streets is a lot of slow speed corners were the all wheel drive cars have an advantage. I used to drive there in my street/track CRX and a stock C32AMG years ago. Even at 1800lbs and 160hp the CRX could only muster 128's on that track. The modified Evo's and STi's were probably in the lower 120's and they would just disappear powering out of the corners.
Good article. Why didn't they turn off regen ? That'd have to screw up track time a bit.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Why? As long as regen isn't causing the car to overheat the battery, motor, or inverter I don't see what the problem would be. In some situations it might even be an advantage since it allows you to modulate between light braking and throttle. If it were RWD regen only I could see that being a problem.
DR61
Member
Because you are wrong. Unequal tires = invalid comparison.
I'm no expert, but I think it takes control away from the driver. When you let off of the brake, you don't want it to continue to brake. Might be wrong, but I doubt there are race cars set up to automatically start braking when the foot comes off the gas. I also think the regen braking is more than light. Kind of moderate.
When I was reading the article I was surprised the driver didn't get some time with the car before the race to get aquainted with it.
You don't drive electric cars the same as you do fossil cars, but apparently that was what Pobst was trying to do. They should have used a race driver who knows how to drive an EV (with its single-pedal regen/magnetic braking) like Romain Dumas, and the result would have been more telling.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
If you want zero throttle you just let your foot partially off. Regen braking is very moderate. Even I track mode it’s 0.3g and I doubt it’s even that at very high speeds. Full friction brakes are about 1.2g. There is basically zero time that you’re not on throttle or the brakes driving on a track. Regen just moves the crossover point.
mal_tsla
Member
Formula 1 cars have seriously strong throttle-lift engine braking. Maybe that's one reason they drive with both feet.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
How is it different? And what was he doing wrong?
He was only one second off of the Alfa in a heavier car with less power with narrower street tires instead of track tires. I can’t see how you can doubt the skills of someone who has as many street car lap records as Pobst.
I'm curious about the reaction of Tesla's engineers. Are they not aware of the stock tires used in QF prior to this event? I'd half expect that they've done their own internal benchmarking against the usual suspects (QF, M4, C63 S) based on Elon's "Will beat anything in its class on the track" tweet. So... Is there any basis to this claim at all? I haven't seen a single comparison test where P3D+ posted better #s than its rivals around a race track yet.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I'm sure some of them are aware but using 60 treadwear tires as the factory tires on the P3D+ would be asinine. It would have been interesting for them to bring a set of track tires to put on the 3. I think running track tires sort of puts the Alfa in a different class like the BMW M3 GTS.
It is interesting how they chose a lower speed track where the Model 3 would have the best shot at beating the Alfa. They usually test at Laguna Seca and I think there the difference would have been larger.
chickensworth
Member
There’s a lot of things unequal in this comparison which is what makes it interesting... the whole power train is different... doesn’t invalidate the comparison one bit. Same class of car... The Alfa and M4 were benchmarked by Tesla... they should have beat them if they were serious about backing up Elon’s bluster.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
By your logic they should just offer a P3D++ package with track tires just so they can beat the Alfa in this test. Very few people want to run 60TW tires on a street car. Do you want to change tires every 5000 miles?
I guess I didn’t expect the P3D+ to even come close to Elon’s bluster so I’m very impressed!
chickensworth
Member
I’m not suggesting that at all... the benchmarks are all outgoing cars and the new P3D is the slowest of the bunch at the track. It’s great that everyone is so happy being close to an Alfa or M3/M4 on the track, but I’d prefer it be faster as Elon claimed.
Personally, I think the P3D+ is the best roadcar to daily for the money. Effortless performance and next gen driving experience... I love nailing it from lights and putting much more expensive vehicles to shame from a standstill. Certainly, the results of these tests haven’t changed my enjoyment of the car...but if I were going to run laps at a track , I’d rather be in an Alfa.
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