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Excuse my ignorance here but if the bias difference between the three caliper types is that small then what is the benefit of the S or PUP calipers over stock?

Also since you've measured it what is the actual size delta between the stock and PUP calipers?

General Rule of Thumb: Tires are the limiting factor to how quickly a car can come to a complete stop, not the brakes. All the aforementioned brakes have the capacity to overwhelm any tire you can put on this car. The key to brakes is how long they can do it before they overheat. The PUP Caliper uses a larger rotor and a larger brake pad than the non PUP Calipers. That means it will take a lot more abuse/use before it overheats and stops (stopping) the car. The S Calipers use a very similar pad and rotor as far as diameter is concerned, but the S rotor is 7mm thicker than the 3 PUP rotor. In theory, the thermal capacity of the S rotor is higher than the 3 PUP rotor (all else equal). The ideal brake bias would be exactly the same regardless of the brake setup. Now, I personally don't know what that exact brake bias is. But effectively, the "best" brake bias is one that causes the front brakes to lock up JUST before the rears do. You DO NOT want the rear brakes to lock up first. Every car will have a slightly different ideal brake bias. The point I was making is that there is such a small difference between the three calipers that it should have no affect on how the ABS system operates.
 
I am not trying to thread-jack, but I am not sure I agree with this. The only thing different piston sizes would affect is brake bias. In fact, putting track pads on the front axle and leaving the rear pads as is would have a much greater affect on brake bias than the piston size would. Technically, the ABS module doesn't "know" when you put track pads on the front axle, but no one is worried about that and ABS functions fine. Keep in mind you still have a wheel speed sensor measuring wheel speed and detecting slip, so the ABS module should react in response to those input values.


Brake bias being different from stock can make a large difference to ABS function, even with wheel speed sensors on the car. Does this specific Tesla change alter it enough to matter? Can't speak to that, but that changing bias can cause issues is a real thing is true.

See here for a more detailed/technical explanation of why in a whitepaper from Stoptech on the interaction of BBKs and ABS

https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedi...Whitepaper_A5-ABS-Big-Brake-Kits-8-2018_1.pdf
 
Brake bias being different from stock can make a large difference to ABS function, even with wheel speed sensors on the car. Does this specific Tesla change alter it enough to matter? Can't speak to that, but that changing bias can cause issues is a real thing is true.

See here for a more detailed/technical explanation of why in a whitepaper from Stoptech on the interaction of BBKs and ABS

https://www.apcautotech.com/getmedi...Whitepaper_A5-ABS-Big-Brake-Kits-8-2018_1.pdf

I would agree that a massive difference in brake bias would cause the ABS to act unpredictably or undesirably. But what we're talking about with the S calipers compared to the 3 is a 2% brake-bias difference (forward). That's 8% less than simply slapping track pads on the front axle. That's 8% less than putting a 45mm larger rotor on the front axle.

Now, if we slapped an 8-Piston Caliper with 50mm pistons and 400mm rotors on the front, then yes, you would definitely cause the ABS to get upset!
 
General Rule of Thumb: Tires are the limiting factor to how quickly a car can come to a complete stop, not the brakes. All the aforementioned brakes have the capacity to overwhelm any tire you can put on this car. The key to brakes is how long they can do it before they overheat. The PUP Caliper uses a larger rotor and a larger brake pad than the non PUP Calipers. That means it will take a lot more abuse/use before it overheats and stops (stopping) the car. The S Calipers use a very similar pad and rotor as far as diameter is concerned, but the S rotor is 7mm thicker than the 3 PUP rotor. In theory, the thermal capacity of the S rotor is higher than the 3 PUP rotor (all else equal). The ideal brake bias would be exactly the same regardless of the brake setup. Now, I personally don't know what that exact brake bias is. But effectively, the "best" brake bias is one that causes the front brakes to lock up JUST before the rears do. You DO NOT want the rear brakes to lock up first. Every car will have a slightly different ideal brake bias. The point I was making is that there is such a small difference between the three calipers that it should have no affect on how the ABS system operates.

What kind of braking is everyone doing that the standard tires and brakes have become deficient?

I'm serious.

What kind of environment are you guys in?
 
I doubt ABS only works with one specific brake bias. Consider two situations that would require drastically different bias. Situation 1: dry road model 3 performance (20” wheels and tires) tires fully warmed up braking hard on an uphill slope. Situation 2: model 3 performance (20” tires and wheels) cold tires on cold wet downhill slope. Changing the brake bias will just make it easier or harder for the ABS to do its job to keep a tire(s) from locking up depending on the situation.
 
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I doubt ABS only works with one specific brake bias. Consider two situations that would require drastically different bias. Situation 1: dry road model 3 performance (20” wheels and tires) tires fully warmed up braking hard on an uphill slope. Situation 2: model 3 performance (20” tires and wheels) cold tires on cold wet downhill slope. Changing the brake bias will just make it easier or harder for the ABS to do its job to keep a tire(s) from locking up depending on the situation.


Did you read the link I posted?

Not accounting for bias when making brake changes won't disable ABS, but it can potentially make it work a lot more poorly than doing it properly.
 
For anyone interested in racing and powerful ICE, we just finished up a groundbreaking dyno session here at MPP headquarters. We love to work on this car in the evenings and are proud to have been able to achieve these numbers after years of struggle.

We burned less than 20L of fuel from the first startup, break-in, partial, and full throttle tuning. Our position has always been to tell car enthusiasts that we aren't asking you to give up your fun weekend toy! Look for something more efficient (preferably EV) for your daily commute- you can still make a difference in your carbon emissions without sacrificing your passion. If you happen to get a Tesla for your daily commute you will probably have more fun than before.

Kels is going to set some lap records before we take her apart to install our hybrid KERS system. If anyone is interested in this we would gladly share progress here, such as the customized Formula-E motor we have in progress, the custom thermally managed battery we are planning and the Motec electronics to control it all.

 
Here are my RallyArmor mud flaps. Waiting for my performance coilovers but no lift kit for me.

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wIR-uVnCw8QbT3Q-ECoLhRJ_Vi_zX2izc0aBuR48UOzEJXDpEACEEphBJO1gaXm4uVzXtlYa6dPoioRK7M4_ouux77MOioyPbXrEBzsXqoc_aQF6NYKCCgH2CYDkR3vU3d__F9ktV1yP9kdXnn9BZFp2pqnPHKDWeyklHpuZOBBHfO_ug9aYXrkrWLgCvNFBwiQqivzx55v0GHrPztZMJ3nWMOnWAwnZu6tQa0FaqRJMyHOiIlkaBx1oj3R8WELQ32INy8yFoA-bAoclpAxE1J4ViuMRaiavdkBd6ZMaQzPtJQAV6l0LOcRq8dp6SqhtEGp9OlgCN5fsf1mndz339IESTKY0sTxYveyWurs2rbnAabeOjHM5AsCjgo-QgpMvFJ5SD62FeHpXN0vHIk-vWsXhdkb8u8-87Qc8nmeTEgBniaeLh5mz9XWPGVxgxE69J8jCwFVPxTyx0JitTfroN0grOGOb5dNFPHLQNIF--fFtfubDN5uDoap2gABV73iACEvhGGrYUacPEPdNzIF0fPUpkgXCDYEowqBcpYzcoJQcmxheNHzftGyYMIkOs7UvniixQ45R_lOIzfuYRvlwgZX3VfSe1DPaftMBRNeBs86mmc7TBuvJHD4Im4FMo7oZ7DaB0rDwPhFqY2FJJT5-qHqHp-GzPYXP=w618-h824-no


We have added the ever sought after 2" lift kit to our site, we are having too many inquiries to keep doing custom runs. We will have them in stock soon. To our current lift kit order holders, thank you for your patience as our machine shop works to fill 100+ suspension arm orders!

Please, someone, lift your Model 3 and install RallyArmor mud flaps.

MPP 2″ Suspension Lift Kit

20180914_105801.jpg
 
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