Move Over Tesla. Here Comes Cadillac.

[RubberToe]

Before we go on record and declare the Supercruise the new Tesla Killer, we really should consult the way back machine and see how the last Tesla Killer from Cadillac did:

This commercial ran during the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. They sold 2,874 of these cars.

Bolt sales are declining. Anyone expecting technological innovation from this company has just woken up from a 50 year slumber...

RT

 

[NerdUno]

It'll be fun to revisit this thread in the fall.

 

[diamond.g]

It'll be fun to revisit this thread in the fall.

It will probably go like the Bolt thread, lots of hemming and hawing. And denials....

 

[Chopr147]

Before we go on record and declare the Supercruise the new Tesla Killer, we really should consult the way back machine and see how the last Tesla Killer from Cadillac did:

This commercial ran during the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. They sold 2,874 of these cars.

Bolt sales are declining. Anyone expecting technological innovation from this company has just woken up from a 50 year slumber...

RT

I notice they never show that car move. Great bad guy actor though

 

[electracity]

It'll be fun to revisit this thread in the fall.

Do you revisit the vast number of ridiculously optimistic Tesla threads? Or solarcity. Go read the ridiculous predictions of what solarcity would do. How about the model 3 being delivered with full autonomy?

Both forming these new businesses and developing tech is very difficult. Companies should primarily get credit for what they have actually delivered. In autonomous driving GM has delivered essentially nothing notable and Tesla has regressed. Neither is admirable. But the huge challenge is understandable.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Do you revisit the vast number of ridiculously optimistic Tesla threads? Or solarcity. Go read the ridiculous predictions of what solarcity would do. How about the model 3 being delivered with full autonomy?

Both forming these new businesses and developing tech is very difficult. Companies should primarily get credit for what they have actually delivered. In autonomous driving GM has delivered essentially nothing notable and Tesla has regressed. Neither is admirable. But the huge challenge is understandable.

Supercruise will be restricted (at least initially) AP1. Because the system will be limited, the measure will be precision and reliability.

 

[30seconds]

Asking for a friend. Does GM make a class leading car in any class?

 

[McRat]

Asking for a friend. Does GM make a class leading car in any class?

No. Most GM engineering is far enough ahead of the competition to be considered in another class entirely.

Name anything priced similarly that is better than what GM is selling?

The only area there are seriously weak is in Poser Ability. Cars that look bad ass but are actually shiit have not yet been assigned project managers. They tried to hire Toyota staff, but they are really loyal.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

No. Most GM engineering is far enough ahead of the competition to be considered in another class entirely.

Name anything priced similarly that is better than what GM is selling?

You really don't want to play that game.

The Chevy Cruze got its ass kicked every which way in Car & Driver's recent comparison test: 2017 Chevrolet Cruze LT RS vs. 2017 Honda Civic Sport, 2017 Mazda 3 Touring 2.5, 2017 Volkswagen Golf Wolfsburg Edition - Comparison Tests

Inferior suspension, lousy power train, cheap interior. Honda Civic utterly destroys it in almost every category, and the price is virtually identical.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Before we go on record and declare the Supercruise the new Tesla Killer, we really should consult the way back machine and see how the last Tesla Killer from Cadillac did:

This commercial ran during the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. They sold 2,874 of these cars.

Bolt sales are declining. Anyone expecting technological innovation from this company has just woken up from a 50 year slumber...

RT

Um, no.

GM has technical innovations so don't go blaming the Engineers. Have you seen some of the Bolt self driving videos that they've posted? They're not the spliced together bits that Tesla has done.

The problem with GM is they always find some way to screw it up.

The Volt is a marvelous product, but in a lot of ways it feels like GM didn't allow it to win. They didn't market it well, and they didn't take advantage of the technology.

No one is claiming that Supercruise is a Tesla killer, but it's certainly going to give autopilot a run for it's money up until autopilot levels up. SuperCruise will likely be the first true hands free cruise control system.

I am a bit concerned that GM might beat Tesla to a full self driving car.

Why does it concern me so much? I can't ever picture myself in a GM. I acknowledge a lot of that has to do with a dislike of the brand. Which isn't really fair to the engineers working at GM.

That's the biggest problem with GM. They have good products on occasion, but so many people simply do not want to be behind the wheel of a GM product.

 

[NerdUno]

ELR was an excellent car in both looks and performance. It was just overpriced. Escalade stands up well against any SUV on the road IMHO. Chevy trucks and Corvettes aren't too bad either. And GM vehicles come with a warranty, free service, and a convenient place to get them fixed. Here's a new one. The advertised features in the car actually work. You know things like auto-sensing windshield wipers, auto-dimming headlights, and traffic aware cruise control. Did I mention that the doors actually close properly. The sunroof doesn't sound like a hurricane is passing overhead. And the body panels look like they were assembled by someone or some thing that knew what it was doing. Should I go on?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

ELR was an excellent car in both looks and performance. It was just overpriced. Escalade stands up well against any SUV on the road IMHO. Chevy trucks and Corvettes aren't too bad either. And GM vehicles come with a warranty, free service, and a convenient place to get them fixed. Here's a new one. The advertised features in the car actually work. You know things like auto-sensing windshield wipers, auto-dimming headlights, and traffic aware cruise control. Did I mention that the doors actually close properly. The sunroof doesn't sound like a hurricane is passing overhead. And the body panels look like they were assembled by someone or some thing that knew what it was doing. Should I go on?

You forgot the most important one in that they don't rattle as much largely due to how they are tested.

I don't really agree on the performance part of the ELR. I think that's one area where GM really screwed up. If the ELR was a really fast version of the Volt I think it would have done better. Hell I would have looked at one had they done that.

 

[McRat]

You really don't want to play that game.

The Chevy Cruze got its ass kicked every which way in Car & Driver's recent comparison test: 2017 Chevrolet Cruze LT RS vs. 2017 Honda Civic Sport, 2017 Mazda 3 Touring 2.5, 2017 Volkswagen Golf Wolfsburg Edition - Comparison Tests

Inferior suspension, lousy power train, cheap interior. Honda Civic utterly destroys it in almost every category, and the price is virtually identical.

The Chevy Cruze is $16.9 k before incentives.
The Civic is $19.7k before incentives.

Odd, I'd have chosen the Camaro Gelding to compete in that shootout. About the same price, but instead of pretending it's a performance car, even the 4 banger strips the paint off the Civic. And it's RWD and better balanced. And can be upgraded to an NSX killer.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

The Chevy Cruze is $16.9 k before incentives.
The Civic is $19.7k before incentives.

C&D compared vehicles optioned to roughly the same price point.

Cruz lost on nearly every objective and subjective measure and got last place.

Odd, I'd have chosen the Camaro Gelding to compete in that shootout. About the same price, but instead of pretending it's a performance car, even the 4 banger strips the paint off the Civic. And it's RWD and better balanced. And can be upgraded to an NSX killer.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[30seconds]

The Chevy Cruze is $16.9 k before incentives.
The Civic is $19.7k before incentives.

Odd, I'd have chosen the Camaro Gelding to compete in that shootout. About the same price, but instead of pretending it's a performance car, even the 4 banger strips the paint off the Civic. And it's RWD and better balanced. And can be upgraded to an NSX killer.

so in other words the Escalde is the only product people are willing to pay a premium for

 

[anticitizen13.7]

so in other words the Escalde is the only product people are willing to pay a premium for

And no wonder.

The base Cruze is cheap because it designed cheap and is built cheap. It uses an inferior torsion beam suspension in the rear, while the Civic has a much more sophisticated multilink independent rear. The suspension tuning is devoid of any redeeming handling characteristics. C&D absolutely savages the Cruze's interior for the amount of hard plastic and sloppily installed headliner. And the 1.4L turbo is both lacking in power and relatively thirsty. The numbers don't lie: the Civic's motor is both more powerful and more efficient by a noticeable margin.

It is NOT a mark of "far ahead" that GM delivers a markedly worse compact hatchback car than Honda at the same price point.

 

[30seconds]

It's kind of remarkable how many technological advances GM has been able to not capitalize on. Cylinder shut down, satellite data linkage, a whole electronics / software company, EV-1, voltec drive train, lightweight body construction. The Bolt (I mean Tesla killer) has to have a dealer visit for software upgrades. Despite OnStar's much ballyhooed over the air upgrade ability.

The GM cars I have driven lately are much, much better vehicles than 5 or 6 years ago. But it seems that deep down in GM HQ the cost-cutting ability to pull defeat from the jaws of victory it still apparent in the ELR and multiple examples of launching cars developed elsewhere in the US despite being 2 or 4 years old already (the "new" badge engineering.

Of course this is a company that actively seeks to roll back CAFE standards, lobbies against EVs, and can't even commit to making their CT6 plug-in in the US.

But, hey, I'm sure that "SuperCruise" is light years ahead of Tesla.

You can count on it.

 

[NerdUno]

Not quite fair comparing Cruz to Tesla when it's 1/8th the price of my Tesla.

 

[Roadster]

...we really should consult the way back machine and see how the last Tesla Killer from Cadillac did... Anyone expecting technological innovation from this company has just woken up from a 50 year slumber...

Man... I hated that pompous, America F-yeah(!) Cadillac ELR commercial from the second I saw it. However, I absolutely loved Ford's C-Max response:

To quote Musk: "As of 2016, the number of American car companies that haven't gone bankrupt is a grand total of two: Ford and Tesla."

 

[McRat]

C&D compared vehicles optioned to roughly the same price point.

Cruz lost on nearly every objective and subjective measure and got last place.

Apples and Oranges.

I guess I have no idea why you'd spend $23k on an sluggish family econobox with a clutch. Especially a $16k one.

The base Camaro is as cheap as the Sport Civic, but is actually a sports car not a fast-n-furious fashionista.

Up optioned FWD econoboxes with stick shifts? For people who like to be miserable AND slow together? Or you just have a need to show people you don't how to buy cars? The comedy is the Honda needs Premium. I'm guessing so when you refuel you get to hang with the real cars?

so in other words the Escalde is the only product people are willing to pay a premium for

If you wear too much gold jewelry have too many tats and want to put donk wheels on your car, there is no better value.

It's kind of remarkable how many technological advances GM has been able to not capitalize on. Cylinder shut down, satellite data linkage, a whole electronics / software company, EV-1, voltec drive train, lightweight body construction. The Bolt (I mean Tesla killer) has to have a dealer visit for software upgrades. Despite OnStar's much ballyhooed over the air upgrade ability.

The GM cars I have driven lately are much, much better vehicles than 5 or 6 years ago. But it seems that deep down in GM HQ the cost-cutting ability to pull defeat from the jaws of victory it still apparent in the ELR and multiple examples of launching cars developed elsewhere in the US despite being 2 or 4 years old already (the "new" badge engineering.

Of course this is a company that actively seeks to roll back CAFE standards, lobbies against EVs, and can't even commit to making their CT6 plug-in in the US.

But, hey, I'm sure that "SuperCruise" is light years ahead of Tesla.

You can count on it.

The cylinder deactivation works excellent. How do you think they get the mileage they do with high HP engines? I won't even explain how GPS and satellites are related. GM still does their own coding and even writes their own operating systems. The EV1 was the most advanced EV of it's day. Nobody wanted it. Until the Roadster arrived, $100k (true price of the EV1) was considered too much for an EV. The Voltec works excellent and Volts are more common in the USA that any other plug in. The CT6 and Bolt chassis are among the best examples of state-of-the-art manufacturing today. The Bolt was shipped in working condition, not all companies today do that. OnStar does do OTA.

I doubt you know very much about cars, so please excuse me when I also state that it is unlikely you know a lot about driving either. So for better or worse, your opinion on how something does or not drive or work is sort of pointless when you don't know much about driving or cars.

You sound like a 12 year old boy telling me 'girls are icky'. OK...