Just finished a trip using FSD beta/NOA and when on a 2 lane highway with no traffic the car keeps wanting to move out of the right hand lane into the left hand fast lane. It then wants to stay in that lane. I would prefer to stay in right lane unless overtaking slower traffic so that faster cars can pass on left. Is this normal behavior?
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Moving out of right lane
- Thread starter yetiman
- Start date
srs5694
Active Member
FSD Beta is "differently-abled" when it comes to lane choices...
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
Normal behavior? Yes. Appropriate behavior? No. Also, this FSD, not AP and is a separate issue from using the passing lane in AP, although I routinely have AP request to change lanes when it doesn‘t need to.
Lane selection in FSDb is poor. I’ll routinely have the system move from the right lane to the left lane, then a minute later move back to the right lane on a wide open road with no traffic at all. It will also try to move from the right lane to the left lane despite needing to make a right turn in a quarter mile. Then it will randomly put the blinker on for a second and turn it off.
It was actually worse with 10.11 and has improved a bit with 10.12 but still needs work.
srs5694
Active Member
In a city, with heavily traffic roads, biasing to the left lane can be advantageous as much of the turning traffic is using the right lane. At intersections, there is more often a left turn lane than one for right turns. So, if the car tends to the right lane, it has to slow down or change lanes frequently.
However, on rural highways, when FSD beta is in control, staying in the right lane makes better sense so that faster traffic can pass on the left. Hopefully, FSD will learn this in future updates.
Frequent, inexplicable lane changes are certainly a thing, and FSD beta is sometimes short sighted. It will change lanes to pass cars when it is much too close to it's next turn. It is surprising how often it does manage to get back in the correct lane. Probably irks other drivers doing so!
Depends on the system engaged at the time. If you were on FSD Beta (the new visualizations) there is currently no setting to control lane position. If you were on a freeway/highway that switched to the AP/NoA stack (older visualizations), then there are a few settings for controlling lane selection, including one on exiting passing lanes and using HOA lanes.
RTPEV
Active Member
Some of the above are talking about Autopilot and Navigate-on-Autopilot.
The OP is talking about behavior off-highway (but on multi-laned "highways" with at-grade intersections) where FSD beta, not NoA, is in control.
Yes, that behavior is normal, and very annoying. Worse yet, there is no way to disable it short of not using autosteer at all.
On a true highway, I can turn off NoA and it will stick in whatever lane it's in until I decide to change lanes. But when in FSD beta, you're stuck. No settings or anything short of not using it all seem to work. I returned from a trip on a long rural highway that wasn't technically a highway, and yep, the darn car just got into the left lane and hung out there, despite there being miles between intersections and very little traffic.
I see why they do it--at a high rate of speed and with the relatively low vision distance ahead and slow response time in changing lanes, it is just better to avoid the right lane where you might have a car entering the highway. But I suspect the developers aren't traveling a lot on these rural kinds of roads in the Bay Area.
As a result of this behavior, I turned off FSD beta and actually "drove" the car for those endless miles. It's amazing how mundane that is after almost exclusively using Autopilot on highways for the past 4 years is!
The OP is talking about behavior off-highway (but on multi-laned "highways" with at-grade intersections) where FSD beta, not NoA, is in control.
Yes, that behavior is normal, and very annoying. Worse yet, there is no way to disable it short of not using autosteer at all.
On a true highway, I can turn off NoA and it will stick in whatever lane it's in until I decide to change lanes. But when in FSD beta, you're stuck. No settings or anything short of not using it all seem to work. I returned from a trip on a long rural highway that wasn't technically a highway, and yep, the darn car just got into the left lane and hung out there, despite there being miles between intersections and very little traffic.
I see why they do it--at a high rate of speed and with the relatively low vision distance ahead and slow response time in changing lanes, it is just better to avoid the right lane where you might have a car entering the highway. But I suspect the developers aren't traveling a lot on these rural kinds of roads in the Bay Area.
As a result of this behavior, I turned off FSD beta and actually "drove" the car for those endless miles. It's amazing how mundane that is after almost exclusively using Autopilot on highways for the past 4 years is!
The OP is actually ambiguous. On a rural highway with 65+ mph, NOA takes over, even if there are at-grade intersections.
srs5694
Active Member
Definitely. It's pretty rare for me to be honked at when I drive myself, but my Tesla on FSD beta gets honked at more frequently.
I saw a Tesla at a Supercharger once with a window sticker in the rear that identified the car as being a beta-test self-driving vehicle. I don't recall the exact wording.
I have two bumper stickers, one on each side of the T logo.
First one has graphics of the AP blue wheel, and say "Self-Driving Test Vehicle" with "Please Be Patient" and "Caution" above and below that. The 2nd one is yellow and says "Autonomous Vehicle in Training" with "Please Be Patient" and "Sudden Braking May Occur" above and below that.
I still get honked at from time to time as well, from those who cannot read, or feel their urgency to get to their destination outweighs their patience or sense of decorum.
... which doesn't apply to FSD Beta (city streets driving). The only settings FSB has right now is Chill/Average/Assertive right under the switch to turn it on.
RenMan68
Member
I find this behavior new and incredibly annoying to the point of not being able to use autopilot on the highway. This is new with 2022.36.20 for me. It frickin' wants to get in the left lane (for no reason) and stay there. I live in Atlanta and this will get you killed. If their thinking is that the right lane is subject to more merging and exiting traffic they need to re-think this. There are big signs saying "STAY RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". It may not be a law but there are signs directing you to do it. If the idea is that the car will move over if it sees a car approaching from the rear, good luck. In Atlanta the closing speeds are way too high for that to be of use and, besides, it's just wrong.
As you and others have noted, the only reasonable course of action is to not use FSD. A modification that makes people stop using the feature is no benefit at all. This is a very, very bad progression of the FSD software. I can't use it now. It was good before. I wonder if it's because I left Twitter...
srs5694
Active Member
The last I checked (this may change in the near future), there were three operating modes, each with options:
- Basic Autopilot -- This mode is intended for use on highways. When active, the car stays in whatever lane it's in, and will not change lanes. Your complaint should not apply to Autopilot.
- Navigate on Autopilot (NoA) -- This mode is an extension of Autopilot in which the car will suggest or implement lane changes. The behavior you describe could occur under NoA; however, there are NoA options you can set to change this. In particular, you can either enable the car to make lane changes automatically, without user authorization; or you can configure the car to require user approval before it implements a lane change. If the latter, then you might see frequent suggestions to change lanes, but if you don't approve them, the car will stay in its current lane. There's also an option to adjust how aggressive the car is about lane changes. It's conceivable that setting it to a less-aggressive option would improve the behavior about which you're complaining.
- Auto-steer on city streets (FSD beta) -- This is intended for use on city streets. AFAIK, there's no way to prevent the car from doing whatever lane changes it wants in this mode; however, this mode is active only at slower speeds on city streets, not on highways. It's available only if you've purchased (or subscribed to) the FSD package. I don't believe it's what you're using, given that you say it's active on the highway.
Overall, I'd say you should review your settings. If you don't want the car making lane-change decisions at all, set it to use plain Autopilot, rather than NoA, by default. (You can enable or disable NoA on a per-drive basis by pushing a single button on the display.) If you want the car to suggest lane change, but you want to maintain "veto power" over them, then find the option to require user input before the car makes a lane change. If you want the car to make lane changes automatically but you're unhappy with how aggressive it is, then perhaps the aggressiveness option will help. (I don't recall precisely what that option is called, but it should be pretty obvious when you're perusing the options.) It sounds to me like either of the first two of those options would be better than what you're experiencing now, from your point of view; and the third might be, too, depending on what the car does.
NOA has a setting to move out of the passing lane. With this setting enabled, I find my car moving to the right when other cars are approaching from the rear.
FSDb does have control on lane selection, sort of. You can cancel a lane change, or initiate one using the turn signal controls. It's a bit of a pain since the car may attempt a lane change shortly afterward.
FSDb operates on plenty of highways. They're typically your 301 and 70 and 55 types - two lanes, median (maybe a cable barrier), just NOT LIMITED ACCESS, which is the trigger for NoA on autopilot, has nothing to do with speed.
This behavior sucks and it's been the same since at least I started using it on 10.5.
There is no way to prevent the auto lane change, only to abort the operation in progress - which makes you look goofy turning your signal on and off every half mile.
eta: Move out of passing lane has no impact here. That setting is for NoA only.
My experience is that it switches between. I'm referring to those like TX-12, -183, -377, and -281. In the sections where there are crossovers and 'super twos' it reverts to FSDb.
On the stretches with merge lanes and decel lanes it uses NoA.
Either way - point was and still is that FSDb loves to move out of the right lane, and it isn't just on low speed feeders and side roads/Blvds/pkwys etc where that behavior would be more acceptable.
You can't drive down 281 in Texas in the left lane because your car has a fetish for it and no other reason
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