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Moving Parts and Long-Term Maintenance

Discussion in 'Model S: Interior & Exterior' started by JST, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. JST

    JST Active Member

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    I am deeply skeptical of the 18 moving parts v 2000 moving parts claim. Would like to see some exposition on that.
     
  2. DaveT

    DaveT Searcher of green pastures

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  3. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Let's see here the motor, the first tiny gear (the one directly attached to the motor), the second larger gear (the one attached to the axle), the axle, the four wheels... Ummm does steering and braking count? I could squeeze a few move movements out of that... I would only contest the 18 number because I think it is too high... But from your comment you feel that is too low?

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    Oh wow... Never mind I wasnt at all considering the other stuff... But still even if it is 200 (taking all the other things like seatbelts and such into account) that is still less than is in just the engine compartment of an ICE by a factor of 10!
     
  4. Theshadows

    Theshadows Active Member

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    Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2014

    I believe the 18 is referring to the drive train. The motor, reduction gear, spider gears in the dif associated bearings and the axles. It would be good for TM to make a diagram with each part labeled. Imagine doing that in an ICE and its transaxle.
     
  5. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Yeah that was my original line of thinking as well I am just not a mechanical type person to know enough about it to get the right count. But 18 seems believable.

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    I don't think I would count seatbelt actuators and wiper motors as things that in any way requires "regular maintenance" so as to build any kind of serious business model behind it, so while these things have movement it is not something you normally concern yourself with in well... Any car... Unless it breaks due to a defect or extreme overuse. An ICE engine on the other hand REQUIRES regular maintenance to keep those 2000 parts moving smoothly to avoid doing damage or decreasing performance. The 18 (or whatever number) moving parts to drive our cars forward should realistically last forever if built correctly. All with little to no required maintenance.
     
  6. jhm

    jhm Active Member

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    I had to get the oil pan replaced on my Malibu Max today. The pan was made of aluminum, and just normal oil changes was enough to strip the threads holding the oil plug in. So I guess the oil plug could count as a moving part. Cost of repair: $1100.

    Two weeks ago I had to replace the clutch on my Camry for the second time. Cost of repair: $1500.

    I am so ready to get a Tesla, where at least I won't have to replace an oil pan or clutch.
     
  7. JST

    JST Active Member

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    As I said in another thread, my house is full of appliances that are nothing more than electric motors, electric cables, and printed circuits. They fail in a bewildering variety of ways and are not cheap to fix. The mere fact that an electric motor has fewer moving parts than an ICE says little, by itself, about how much its repair costs will be.

    And as I also said elsewhere, Telsa will charge me more this year for an annual maintenance visit than I will pay to keep both of my other ICE cars on the road for the year. Combined.

    I love the tech and think it's the future. I am just a little skeptical of the claims that it will be so reliable that it will bankrupt car dealer service centers. I mean, in the 50s they predicted nuclear power would one day be too cheap to meter...
     
  8. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    And they are one step closer to that goal with fusion.

    The Tesla may not be cheap now, but I strongly believe that price will come down.
     
  9. JST

    JST Active Member

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    What about the coolant pumps? The contactors in the battery that I hear closing with a thwack every time the car powers up? The locking pin in the charge port? The brake pedal, brake booster, calipers and pads? The hubs and bearings? The shocks? The suspension pieces that are cushioned by bushings?

    All of these are potential wear items; they are all things that either may or likely will need replacing at some point in the car's life. They may not be part of the drivetrain, but they aren't cheap to fix.
     
  10. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Oh and need we forget even Tesla thinks they have high quality parts on their 18 moving parts or they would not have given the whole drive unit an 8 yeast unlimited mile warranty.
     
  11. JST

    JST Active Member

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    I should note that I am not even mentioning the battery, which isn't a moving part but is most certainly a wear item. Even assuming Tesla makes significant strides in bringing the costs of those down, they have a long way to go before the battery in my Model S will cost less to replace than the *engine* in my Porsche would.

    So, like I said--the tech is great, the car is fantastic, I believe in the company. I just don't believe analysts who suddenly think that it will make automotive repair and maintenance obsolete.
     
  12. yesla

    yesla Member

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    Uh I think you need to consider the maintenance of cars for the long term. Average maintenance is $2k\yr for a car outside of warranty. While true, ev has shocks and brakes that need replacement, there are a lot of belts and fluids and mechanical parts in the drive train that account for a lot.

    And then you have the luxury brands. Which could cost $2k for a single visit was easily.

    When my phone breaks. I fix it. Parts are found online easily enough. Even the washing machine is modulated so even the circuits can be remove and replaced like a toy. Certainly doesn't require a chest full of specialized tools to inspect and maintain anymore.
     
  13. FANGO

    FANGO Active Member

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    Friend just got charged 35k for an engine replacement in his m5... Which is slower than a tesla btw.
     
  14. RyanT

    RyanT Member

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    My 911 was $26k for an engine. At least with battery packs it's easier to get them out I'm sure!

    I feel a little optimistic for a 1-2% gain tomorrow.
     
  15. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Porsche Panamera Turbo engine cost $49.5k

    Use also: replacement engine ready for installation not for vehicles up to for 2012 Porsche Panamera. #94810097010



    An Independent Porsche shop will charge you at least $6k for labor and a dealer at least twice that.


    IMO there will be independent shops re-manufacturing Tesla battery packs in the not too distant future. Buying multiple battery packs from junk yards, taking the best packs and replacing bad modules with good ones. Taking cores and re-manufacturing those too.

    These will cost no more than re-manufactured 7-10 speed auto transmissions in equivalent German sedans.

    And they will not need to be re-manufactured any sooner either.
     
  16. JST

    JST Active Member

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    It will be interesting to see how the independent shop market evolves for EVs generally and for Teslas specifically. Certainly Tesla's current position that it won't make parts generally available would seem to put a damper on development of those shops.

    Perhaps you're right about remanufacturing battery packs, but without Tesla's support it sounds like there are some pretty big barriers to doing that on a large scale. Will Tesla support a car with a remanufactured battery pack? I'm guessing the answer (at least right now) is no.
     
  17. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    I thought someone just got through fighting Tesla over that one and they finally caved. The guy bought a Tesla with a screwed up pack, fixed it, and then finally got Tesla to let him activate the car. I'm sure there will be other bumps along the way and I even sorta understand Tesla's resistance toward those thing right now while they only have about 50k cars on the road... But it is coming. It will be a whole different conversation at 1 million cars.
     
  18. Perfect_Flaw

    Perfect_Flaw Banned

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    Moving parts on Tesla:

    (4) Door handle actuators
    (4) Power window motors
    (1) Power Liftgate motor
    (1) Steering tilt/adjustment motor
    (2) Power seat motors
    (2) Windshield wiper motors
    (4) Hub assemblies, with brake calipers and regenerative braking system components
    (4) CV Joint and/or axles
    (1) AC Induction Motor
    (1) Gear with Gear Oil/Fluid in differential
    (1) Electric steering box/rack pinion whatever
    (2) Fans for HVAC and/or battery pack cooling [not quite sure if there is only 1 or 2 fans though]
    (1) Parking Brake/Hill Assist contraption of some sort
    (1) Pano Roof motor

    I am at 28 here- which isn't too far off, anyone wanna contribute to this count?
     
  19. Larry93428

    Larry93428 Member

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    Not sure what you are after.
    These are movable:
    Glove box door and switch.
    Frunk manual release mechanism
    Rear seat latches
    Manual release for rear doors
    Charge port door
    Various switches - emergency flashers, cruise control, gear shift
    ...on and on
     
  20. Tasdevil

    Tasdevil Member

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    There will always be a price premium that comes with luxury cars, being tesla or another company.

    I recently had my radiator replaced in my australian ice car (GM hoden commodore) the radiator cost $200 and labour was $160.

    Cheap as chips...

    I would hate to be doing the same with a tesla or bmw
     

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