dgaultiere
Member
I was wondering this too. I can’t imagine the stock traction control would allow so much sliding. Would LOVE a mod that reduces traction control for spirited driving.
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Vendor MPP Model 3 Build Thread
- Thread starter MountainPass
- Start date
Carrera
Member
Great thread and I love what you're doing with this car. I also took deliver of our M3 on May 31st. As a track guy that also owns a track focused car forum it will be interesting to see how the EV's develop and can be used for track days. I saw a Model S at Thunderhill last year and it was doing ok but how long can you go? My initial impression is the batteries in the M3 might be better suited for track use compared to the S batteries. The big question is when will we see Superchargers at race tracks?
+1 on superchargers at tracks
AFAIK the limiting factor on the model S was the engine heat dissipation, not the batteries.
Lucky13
Member
Sasha it might be written some where but how do you disable traction control and do you think it will be similar in the AWD versions?
We are working on something that might help disable stability control on the track. That allows the car to move around. For the traction control, that is always active (although it seems less intrusive after stability control is shut off). Even though the dash says "traction control off" - it's actually still on. I figure as long as the car is able to detect front wheel speed and knows motor speed, it will do what it can to manage wheel slip.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I wonder if generating a fake wheel speed signal (just average the two wheel speed sensors) would work. It will be interesting to see if they put a fully disabled mode on the performance version. Obviously that would be required to compete with the BMW M3.
That could potentially work, but it would need to revert back to the actual speed under braking or the ABS obviously wouldn't work! The traction control is really not intrusive on the track other than when it's trying to control inside tire spin. It's the stability control that costs laptime I've found.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yep. Would definitely want to gate it with the brake switch. I guess you wouldn't improve your time spinning the inside tire more with an open diff. Need an LSD!
Carrera
Member
Thanks. I thought it was the batteries overheating. Seems like it would be an easier fix to cool the motor than the batteries.
specifically, it's the rotor (the spinning part of the motor). There's the challenge. At least with a crankshaft, there's motor oil that baths the crankshaft, no such lubricant for the rotor (since it adds friction).
Carrera
Member
No. Different motors, different heating profile. As I understand it, AC Induction motors (model S/X) have the stator induce a magnetic field in the rotor. This induced field isn't as efficient as a permanent magnet, but is more powerful. But regardless, less efficient means more energy converted to heat. The switched reluctance motor in the model 3 uses permanent magnets in the rotor, which is more efficient, and thus less heat generated.
Found a pretty good explainer: Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica
Carrera
Member
Yes exactly. The permanent magnet motor is a better design for long duration high power. The induction motor is better for drag racing 
I've been working on integrating our solar net metering system with our car charging. The first step was obviously to know what we are importing and exporting, so I installed an eGauge in our electrical panel. The eGauge publishes XML meter readings, which aren't super useful or easy to work with.
I also purchased an OpenEVSE as it has a lot of features I like. It has a PVDivert feature, which as long as we can transmit power to it it will be able to modulate output to keep our net export / import as close to zero as possible. So it reduces charging power when other appliances are using power, or when the sun hides, and vice versa. It also has wifi and a decent web interface.
I then made a Python script to convert the XML meter reading to a 10 second average total import/export power. That is then sent via my Home Assistant (running on a Raspberry Pi) over MQTT to the OpenEVSE.
It was a lot of work as I had to learn how to use MQTT and the Python script had a lot of new bits in it for me as well, so yeah I feel a pretty good sense of accomplishment. I know there are many computer scientists on this forum that will laugh at me for being proud of something like this, but hey, two years ago I didn't even know what a variable was
Here's a quick screen grab of the eGauge. You can see as the solar output increased the charger amped up. The hot water heater came on so the solar reduced power, then turned back up as the solar output continued to increase. The charger then got to its max setting which is why it didn't chase the solar output up any higher.
I've been working on integrating our solar net metering system with our car charging. The first step was obviously to know what we are importing and exporting, so I installed an eGauge in our electrical panel. The eGauge publishes XML meter readings, which aren't super useful or easy to work with.
I also purchased an OpenEVSE as it has a lot of features I like. It has a PVDivert feature, which as long as we can transmit power to it it will be able to modulate output to keep our net export / import as close to zero as possible. So it reduces charging power when other appliances are using power, or when the sun hides, and vice versa. It also has wifi and a decent web interface.
I then made a Python script to convert the XML meter reading to a 10 second average total import/export power. That is then sent via my Home Assistant (running on a Raspberry Pi) over MQTT to the OpenEVSE.
It was a lot of work as I had to learn how to use MQTT and the Python script had a lot of new bits in it for me as well, so yeah I feel a pretty good sense of accomplishment. I know there are many computer scientists on this forum that will laugh at me for being proud of something like this, but hey, two years ago I didn't even know what a variable was
Here's a quick screen grab of the eGauge. You can see as the solar output increased the charger amped up. The hot water heater came on so the solar reduced power, then turned back up as the solar output continued to increase. The charger then got to its max setting which is why it didn't chase the solar output up any higher.
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@MountainPass How "streetable" are these DS2500 pads, compared to the stock ones? Are they still perfectly fine for the occasional hard stop when cold, or do they need some warming up? Also, any chance of an upgraded brake disc option that fits inside the aero 18" wheels (i.e., same improvements other than the larger diameter) - or would it be little to no improvement without the added diameter?
@MountainPass For the Big Brake Kit, whats the advantage other than the better cooling custom rotor since its the same stock caliper?
For example, imagine the rotor was a larger, stock type rotor (like rear)...... Would this still be better than stock in that since the same caliper is "out" more, it has more of a mechanical advantage/leverage against the wheel spinning?
-Is it that the stock caliper is more capable than the stock rotor allows due to its smaller size?
-Or that the caliper doesn't need to work as hard being out more hence it has more room/leverage to brake harder?
-No larger/more piston caliper needed with more surface area to take full advantage of larger rotor?
Reason I ask...because if so, would you ever consider offering an "upgraded street big brake kit" (lower tier kit), mainly street use, where its the caliper relocation bracket and a stock type rotor. Or maybe even just the caliper bracket, and we can buy stock rear rotors? That would be cool! I would think that would sell well....just a thought.
For example, imagine the rotor was a larger, stock type rotor (like rear)...... Would this still be better than stock in that since the same caliper is "out" more, it has more of a mechanical advantage/leverage against the wheel spinning?
-Is it that the stock caliper is more capable than the stock rotor allows due to its smaller size?
-Or that the caliper doesn't need to work as hard being out more hence it has more room/leverage to brake harder?
-No larger/more piston caliper needed with more surface area to take full advantage of larger rotor?
Reason I ask...because if so, would you ever consider offering an "upgraded street big brake kit" (lower tier kit), mainly street use, where its the caliper relocation bracket and a stock type rotor. Or maybe even just the caliper bracket, and we can buy stock rear rotors? That would be cool! I would think that would sell well....just a thought.
I can answer this since I have a full Stoptech Trophy BBK in my BMW M3 and in my wife’s VW CC (I swapped it from my GTI after I got rid of it).
BBK’s don’t improve stopping distance.
The brake pad choice and steel brake lines that come with BBK’s however will improve pedal feel. So if you wanted a “street” kit... just change your pads + get steel brake lines. (Heck if you can source slotted rotors that will work too... even though it’s the pads, steel lines, and fluid that makes the biggest difference in feel)
So why spend $$$$ on a BBK? Cause they look awesome under a nice set of wheels....
Also more importantly the increase in size allows for more heat to be dissipated when repeatedly breaking over and over and over again on the race track. This means less brake fade and more consistent braking until the end of the race/ or track day session. The car that can still brake aggressively and deep into the corners consistently at the end of the race will beat the car that has cooked pads and fluids from undersized rotors.
Additionally the MPP rotor upgrade isn’t just a bigger rotor... it’s a multi piece design which means less rotational mass vs a similar 1 piece design. That’s why even though it is massively larger than the oe rotors, weight is the same. This means acceleration and deceleration won’t be diminished.
MPP do I get a prize for the explanation?
That being said... a few questions about the kit.
- how much are the rotor ring replacements? Can they be sourced through brembo or stop-tech for future replacements?
- any plans to also offer an anodized caliper upgrade? Would be neat to make it a modular BBK.
- does this fit under the stock 19 inch wheels?
From what I remember watching a video somewhere recently that featured MPP Model 3 brakes, their upgrade also has angled vanes instead of straight (stock style) and this apparently aides cooling. This is why I am wondering if it will be possible to get something with the various improvements but fits in the 18" wheels - and if there'd still be an improvement at that point or if most of it is just the greater thermal mass.
Hey guys, thanks for the interest in our brakes! All great questions. Let me see if I can cover them all here:
Curved vanes - this makes a huge difference to rotor cooling especially at higher speeds. Our brakes have them!
Replacement rings - yes we will offer replacement rings, although I can't see anyone needing a pair unless you're racing often! They are not compatible with other brands brake rings, no.
Our brake kit DOES fit under the factory 19's. That was a design constraint of ours. We just installed a set today actually!
We don't have any plans to offer upgraded discs for the 18's as we feel the disc size isn't nearly large enough for the car, so our upgraded disc would be destined for failure. That and just about everyone upgrading these cars will be installing larger wheels for the most part.
There is a small market of track guys that want to use 18" wheels because 18" tires are more available, and I feel for those guys, but with the factory rotor and a very sticky tire, the brakes just won't be able to manage. The only option would be a BBK with a different caliper and something like a ~355mm rotor. This is not something we're looking at doing as we've found for 95% of the applications the factory caliper is fine.
DS2500 is a great pad for the street - except it squeals. Our pads weren't making any noise for ~1000km and I was ecstatic, but as temps got hotter here in Ontario they squeal now. It seems to be related to outside temperature more than anything (since I just use regen all the time so the brakes are effectively always at ambient temp). We'll be testing a number of pad compounds and making suggestions in the coming future. The correct pad is critical with our brake upgrade as if you get a pad that has too much bite, along with a larger rotor, you'll have too much front brake bias. The DS2500 keeps the brake bias exactly where we want it.
@pandam3 I think a free t-shirt is coming your way in no time!
We've also got brake lines in the works, so we'll have a complete brake package upgrade available soon. But right now the rotors and pads with some racing fluid are all you need to have a track capable car!
Curved vanes - this makes a huge difference to rotor cooling especially at higher speeds. Our brakes have them!
Replacement rings - yes we will offer replacement rings, although I can't see anyone needing a pair unless you're racing often! They are not compatible with other brands brake rings, no.
Our brake kit DOES fit under the factory 19's. That was a design constraint of ours. We just installed a set today actually!
We don't have any plans to offer upgraded discs for the 18's as we feel the disc size isn't nearly large enough for the car, so our upgraded disc would be destined for failure. That and just about everyone upgrading these cars will be installing larger wheels for the most part.
There is a small market of track guys that want to use 18" wheels because 18" tires are more available, and I feel for those guys, but with the factory rotor and a very sticky tire, the brakes just won't be able to manage. The only option would be a BBK with a different caliper and something like a ~355mm rotor. This is not something we're looking at doing as we've found for 95% of the applications the factory caliper is fine.
DS2500 is a great pad for the street - except it squeals. Our pads weren't making any noise for ~1000km and I was ecstatic, but as temps got hotter here in Ontario they squeal now. It seems to be related to outside temperature more than anything (since I just use regen all the time so the brakes are effectively always at ambient temp). We'll be testing a number of pad compounds and making suggestions in the coming future. The correct pad is critical with our brake upgrade as if you get a pad that has too much bite, along with a larger rotor, you'll have too much front brake bias. The DS2500 keeps the brake bias exactly where we want it.
@pandam3 I think a free t-shirt is coming your way in no time!
We've also got brake lines in the works, so we'll have a complete brake package upgrade available soon. But right now the rotors and pads with some racing fluid are all you need to have a track capable car!
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