MSDS for battery pack

[ElectricLove]

Hi guys/gals,

I will be shipping my Roadster from UK to USA and the shipping company is asking for an MSDS for the vessel to bring it across the pond...

Anyone have access to this? I asked Tesla service center and as per the usual party line they can't help due to "liability reasons". I'm sort of shocked a company wouldn't allow a customer access to an MSDS but perhaps it is because I made the mistake of saying why I needed it...

Any luck?

 

[jeremyz]

Isn't the only hazardous part of the battery pack the cells that it contains? Could you just use an MSDS for the Panasonic cells?

 

[Doug_G]

Tesla got full certification to ship their battery packs on ships (and airplanes). Odd that they won't provide the documentation...

 

[ElectricLove]

Isn't the only hazardous part of the battery pack the cells that it contains? Could you just use an MSDS for the Panasonic cells?

This is exactly what I'll end up doing... Thanks!

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Tesla got full certification to ship their battery packs on ships (and airplanes). Odd that they won't provide the documentation...

Have you met Tesla? It doesn't surprise me, although I think there is a consumer rights law somewhere that they are legally obligated to supply MSDS to their customers upon request... But, hey, its Tesla, they do what they want...

 

[Doug_G]

LOL true...

 

[Auzie]

Hi guys/gals,

I will be shipping my Roadster from UK to USA and the shipping company is asking for an MSDS for the vessel to bring it across the pond...

Anyone have access to this? I asked Tesla service center and as per the usual party line they can't help due to "liability reasons". I'm sort of shocked a company wouldn't allow a customer access to an MSDS but perhaps it is because I made the mistake of saying why I needed it...

Any luck?

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is required to be provided by a manufacturer for all products that contain hazardous chemicals that can endanger health due to exposure.

According to Globally Harmonised System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals, Panasonic Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries are classed as an 'article' ie non-hazardous, hence there is no requirement for MSDS.

If Li-on batteries were classed as hazardous goods, then all laptops and mobile phone manufacturers would be subject to additional transportation costs and would be obliged to provide MSDS for their products. Packaging, handling and additional training are required when handling hazardous goods.

The main question is whether batteries are hazardous, regardless of the current non-hazardous classification - the classification can change. Batteries are not hazardous if sealed and used as intended, however if they overheat, puncture or burn/explode then the fumes are toxic. Most fumes are toxic by the way, do not get alarmed

Tesla's answer to you sounds to me like they did not know what to tell you. Tesla can not give you MSDS for a car if they most likely do not have one.

It looks like someone is working on developing one...

International Maritime Dangerous Goods Code classifies batteries as 'dangerous goods class 9' for transport.

 

[Doug_G]

Suggestion... Try another shipper.

 

[Chickenlittle]

wont take the time to read your prior posts but wasn't the buyer of this roadster very dissapointed with tesla over his last? Well if so wonder why he bought another

 

[ElectricLove]

wont take the time to read your prior posts but wasn't the buyer of this roadster very dissapointed with tesla over his last? Well if so wonder why he bought another

Certainly I'm not buying another because I have changed my mind about Tesla's service program, attitude towards 3rd parties or them "as a company"... My stance hasn't changed much and Tesla hasn't done anything to make me feel differently. However, I've never waivered on the actual VEHICLES being awesome. I'm an Electric Vehicle fanatic and understanding all the parts that go into the cars themselves I appreciate the Tesla vehicles for what they are... I still think the company is crap, and them telling me that they won't provide me with an MSDS on the product they sold is just one more example of that issue.

I am going to try my best to work with Tesla and try to get their cooperation on allowing some 3rd party improvements to the Roadster, maybe someday Model S or even ??? I have very low expectations of them working with us (or anyone for that matter)...

If we can get some additional tools, information, etc that will certainly mean we can provide better service/products/experience to the Roadster owners, we will see what happens...

 

[Auzie]

Certainly I'm not buying another because I have changed my mind about Tesla's service program, attitude towards 3rd parties or them "as a company"... My stance hasn't changed much and Tesla hasn't done anything to make me feel differently. However, I've never waivered on the actual VEHICLES being awesome. I'm an Electric Vehicle fanatic and understanding all the parts that go into the cars themselves I appreciate the Tesla vehicles for what they are... I still think the company is crap, and them telling me that they won't provide me with an MSDS on the product they sold is just one more example of that issue.

I am going to try my best to work with Tesla and try to get their cooperation on allowing some 3rd party improvements to the Roadster, maybe someday Model S or even ??? I have very low expectations of them working with us (or anyone for that matter)...

If we can get some additional tools, information, etc that will certainly mean we can provide better service/products/experience to the Roadster owners, we will see what happens...

ElectricLove Tesla can not provide you with MSDS for two reasons:

1. They obviously do not have one, check their website
2. They do not have to have MSDS or to provide MSDS as their car is not classed as hazardous.

There could be a third reason, but that one is my speculation: If anyone called me publicly 'crap' I'd make sure I had no business to do with that party. It is abusive.

 

[ElectricLove]

ElectricLove Tesla can not provide you with MSDS for two reasons:

1. They obviously do not have one, check their website
2. They do not have to have MSDS or to provide MSDS as their car is not classed as hazardous.

There could be a third reason, but that one is my speculation: If anyone called me publicly 'crap' I'd make sure I had no business to do with that party. It is abusive.

Maybe crap is a strong choice of words, perhaps "leaves MUCH room for improvement" is better? Though I personally see them the same, I know if I'm providing "crap" service to a customer that I could do better and hearing it would make me want to service their needs better... Maybe I just operate differently though, as I don't get offended when someone doesn't just love my service/product, I instead take that as an opportunity to probe and find ways to improve...

So, you think Tesla violates OSHA regulation at the factory where the battery packs are assembled (a Tesla factory) and simply "obviously do not have one" since their website hasn't been updated to include it? They are working with hazardous materials and they are welding on battery cases to assemble battery sheets, trust me, they have the MSDS... They also have them on site for every one of the other chemicals they are using at their factory, even the janitors windex...

Not providing them is done b/c they honestly believe that by providing the information they are somehow accepting liability if something happens to the vehicles battery while in transit. My opinion, and I'd suspect the opinion of courts if it came down to it, would be that they are just as liable as any other manufacturer of battery packs for electric vehicles (thousands, maybe 10's of thousands of which are shipped annually overseas) and that providing the MSDS would not in any way effect their liability, when they chose which cells to use during the manufacturing process they accepted de facto liability.

I am not "anti-Tesla", I love the cars and I love what the company could be, I do however see many things which need improvement on the company level and I don't have the confidence in them turning things around on those things. But perhaps that is simply the way of modern vehicles, the next generation, the generation of vehicles that have more in common with a laptop than an old dino-juice burner. The old generation of vehicles were sold and given tremendous support to 3rd parties for service, to enthusiasts for improving performance, to end-users to service their own vehicles, etc... The new generation is more like an absolute marriage to the seller for the life of the vehicle (marriage between the owner and Tesla), you may love the car but unless you also love the company, the lack of 3rd party support, the long lead-times at service stations and the high cost of repairs... you may be better looking elsewhere. Of course, right now, there really is no "elsewhere" in the EV world, perhaps with time and a mature market that will change and then Tesla will as well...

One can only hope!

 

[Auzie]

ElectricLove, my impression is that you are misinterpreting the MSDS requirements and unnecessarily getting upset at Tesla over that misunderstanding.

Back to your original problem, shipping the Roadster.

My way of shipping a car would be to phone at least 3 car shippers/transporters and get some quotes for the job. Put it back on them to get the paperwork that they need to do the job. Let the shippers/transporters do what they do best, seek and handle all the required paperwork.

Good luck

 

[Chickenlittle]

Maybe crap is a strong choice of words, perhaps "leaves MUCH room for improvement" is better? Though I personally see them the same, I know if I'm providing "crap" service to a customer that I could do better and hearing it would make me want to service their needs better... Maybe I just operate differently though, as I don't get offended when someone doesn't just love my service/product, I instead take that as an opportunity to probe and find ways to improve...

So, you think Tesla violates OSHA regulation at the factory where the battery packs are assembled (a Tesla factory) and simply "obviously do not have one" since their website hasn't been updated to include it? They are working with hazardous materials and they are welding on battery cases to assemble battery sheets, trust me, they have the MSDS... They also have them on site for every one of the other chemicals they are using at their factory, even the janitors windex...

Not providing them is done b/c they honestly believe that by providing the information they are somehow accepting liability if something happens to the vehicles battery while in transit. My opinion, and I'd suspect the opinion of courts if it came down to it, would be that they are just as liable as any other manufacturer of battery packs for electric vehicles (thousands, maybe 10's of thousands of which are shipped annually overseas) and that providing the MSDS would not in any way effect their liability, when they chose which cells to use during the manufacturing process they accepted de facto liability.

I am not "anti-Tesla", I love the cars and I love what the company could be, I do however see many things which need improvement on the company level and I don't have the confidence in them turning things around on those things. But perhaps that is simply the way of modern vehicles, the next generation, the generation of vehicles that have more in common with a laptop than an old dino-juice burner. The old generation of vehicles were sold and given tremendous support to 3rd parties for service, to enthusiasts for improving performance, to end-users to service their own vehicles, etc... The new generation is more like an absolute marriage to the seller for the life of the vehicle (marriage between the owner and Tesla), you may love the car but unless you also love the company, the lack of 3rd party support, the long lead-times at service stations and the high cost of repairs... you may be better looking elsewhere. Of course, right now, there really is no "elsewhere" in the EV world, perhaps with time and a mature market that will change and then Tesla will as well...

One can only hope!

Weren't you going to buy a leaf? They increased the battery range to 110 next year on the high end version. I think it maybe time to fight with new companies

 

[ElectricLove]

ElectricLove, my impression is that you are misinterpreting the MSDS requirements and unnecessarily getting upset at Tesla over that misunderstanding.

Back to your original problem, shipping the Roadster.

My way of shipping a car would be to phone at least 3 car shippers/transporters and get some quotes for the job. Put it back on them to get the paperwork that they need to do the job. Let the shippers/transporters do what they do best, seek and handle all the required paperwork.

Good luck

I appreciate your advice, thank you!

I do already have the shipping set up and have taken care of the MSDS issue, just not through the straight-forward channels it should be handled through ;-)

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Weren't you going to buy a leaf? They increased the battery range to 110 next year on the high end version. I think it maybe time to fight with new companies

I already own a Leaf... I may buy another when the range is increased. There isn't much to "fight" Nissan on, at this point, early on they were having some range degradation issues (like some have on their roadsters) but they have been replacing those battery packs with brand new (and improved "lizard" packs) since it was identified. They are one of the few with a battery warranty to include a range/degradation warranty. In case you are curious, I also own the Volt and it has had no issues, it isn't as capable (and I prefer 100% electric) so I won't vouch for it too much but I will say they have had no issues with their drivetrain, batteries are kept in perfect health by a robust BMS and "usable capacity" restrictions... However, neither of these is a "sports-car" and that is what I prefer.

 

[randvegeta]

I know it's been 3 years , but how did you manage to sort out the MSDS issue?

I've got a couple cars I want shipped and I'm having a heck of a hard time trying to arrange the MSDS. What did you end up doing?

 

[ElectricTravel]

I know it's been 3 years , but how did you manage to sort out the MSDS issue?

I've got a couple cars I want shipped and I'm having a heck of a hard time trying to arrange the MSDS. What did you end up doing?

Despite the "MSDS coming soon" text on First Responders | Tesla, Tesla doesn't have a literal MSDS, for the reasons Auzie mentioned above. However, they do have a document that is somewhat similar to an MSDS for the high voltage battery and is probably what you need for shipping a high voltage battery, or maybe for shipping a complete car if the shipping company is overprotective.

I used to work for Tesla Service Technical Publications and worked on this document a few times, but I don't remember its exact title or document number. There is one version for Roadster, and a different one for Model S, X, and 3.

First, take a look at the last 2 pages of the Roadster Emergency Response Guide, available at First Responders | Tesla. This information is an abbreviated version of what is in the not-an-MSDS document, so your shipper might accept it.

If they don't, the not-an-MSDS document is available along with the other service documentation at Welcome | Tesla Service (service.teslamotors.com), but you'll need to pay a fee for access, and the site is only available to residents of the European Union, China, and Massachusetts. Some of my coworkers and I fought a long battle for Tesla to follow virtually all of their competitors by making this website available to anyone who wants to pay for it, instead of the current philosophy of making it available only where they're forced to. We mostly won, but the website changes necessary to implement it were postponed and nearly all of the people pushing for it to be available to everyone don't work there anymore.

Lastly, I talked to a former coworker responsible for this type of information and he is willing to send you the document if you email the [email protected] email address listed at the bottom of the First Responders | Tesla page. Ask for a copy the HV battery document that is similar to an MSDS, and make sure to mention that you need the Roadster version. Keep in mind that there's a person on the other end of that email address who is going to manually find the document and send you a copy, so please don't abuse it by asking for a copy if you don't really need it.

 

[NiallDarwin]

Me too.

 

[alonsoas]

Hi guys/gals,

I will be shipping my Roadster from UK to USA and the shipping company is asking for an MSDS for the vessel to bring it across the pond...

Anyone have access to this? I asked Tesla service center and as per the usual party line they can't help due to "liability reasons". I'm sort of shocked a company wouldn't allow a customer access to an MSDS but perhaps it is because I made the mistake of saying why I needed it...

Any luck?

I have the same problem, I transported my Tesla by boat and they ask me for the MSDS to deliver it to me, could you tell me how you contacted TESLA to have them send you the MSDS, or how did you get it? Thank you

 

[alonsoas]

Despite the "MSDS coming soon" text on First Responders | Tesla, Tesla doesn't have a literal MSDS, for the reasons Auzie mentioned above. However, they do have a document that is somewhat similar to an MSDS for the high voltage battery and is probably what you need for shipping a high voltage battery, or maybe for shipping a complete car if the shipping company is overprotective.

I used to work for Tesla Service Technical Publications and worked on this document a few times, but I don't remember its exact title or document number. There is one version for Roadster, and a different one for Model S, X, and 3.

First, take a look at the last 2 pages of the Roadster Emergency Response Guide, available at First Responders | Tesla. This information is an abbreviated version of what is in the not-an-MSDS document, so your shipper might accept it.

If they don't, the not-an-MSDS document is available along with the other service documentation at Welcome | Tesla Service (service.teslamotors.com), but you'll need to pay a fee for access, and the site is only available to residents of the European Union, China, and Massachusetts. Some of my coworkers and I fought a long battle for Tesla to follow virtually all of their competitors by making this website available to anyone who wants to pay for it, instead of the current philosophy of making it available only where they're forced to. We mostly won, but the website changes necessary to implement it were postponed and nearly all of the people pushing for it to be available to everyone don't work there anymore.

Lastly, I talked to a former coworker responsible for this type of information and he is willing to send you the document if you email the [email protected] email address listed at the bottom of the First Responders | Tesla page. Ask for a copy the HV battery document that is similar to an MSDS, and make sure to mention that you need the Roadster version. Keep in mind that there's a person on the other end of that email address who is going to manually find the document and send you a copy, so please don't abuse it by asking for a copy if you don't really need it.

COULD YOU TELL ME HOW TO CONTACT THEM? I SENT AN EMAIL TO THAT ADDRESS AND I GOT AN AUTOMATIC RESPONSE SAYING THAT THEY ONLY ACCEPT INTERNAL EMAILS

 

[ElectricTravel]

COULD YOU TELL ME HOW TO CONTACT THEM? I SENT AN EMAIL TO THAT ADDRESS AND I GOT AN AUTOMATIC RESPONSE SAYING THAT THEY ONLY ACCEPT INTERNAL EMAILS

The contact I had there was laid off in a recent round of cutbacks. The First Responders page does say "Tesla Safety Data sheets (SDS) are available upon request. Contact us for more information.", but that's under a heading for "Materials Safety", so I suspect it is just for fluids and similar materials, rather than batteries.

I did some searching online and couldn't find the document that I remembered, but the document was extremely similar to document TS-0004027 that I found for Powerwall. Like mentioned earlier in the thread, it says a SDS is not required for the product, just the coolant and refrigerant in it:

Safety Data Sheets (SDS) are a sub-requirement of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) Hazard Communication Standard, 29 CFR Subpart 1910.1200. This Hazard Communication Standard does not apply to various subcategories including anything defined by OSHA as an “article.” OSHA has defined “article” as a manufactured item other than a fluid or particle; (i) which is formed to a specific shape or design during manufacture; (ii) which has end use function(s) dependent in whole or in part upon its shape or design during end use; and (iii) which under normal conditions of use does not release more than very small quantities (e.g., minute or trace amounts) of a hazardous chemical, and does not pose a physical hazard or health risk to employees.

Tesla Energy Products referenced herein meet the OSHA definition of “article.” Thus, they are exempt from the requirements of the Hazard Communication Standard and do not require a SDS. However, SDS are available for non-cell materials found inside these products.

So it seems that the shipping company is asking for a document that doesn't exist, because the document isn't required to exist by law.

The best course of action may be to ask the shipping company "what documentation you REALLY want?" Ask them to show you an example of acceptable documentation for another vehicle or another consumer product that contains batteries. It's likely that they will accept some other documentation.