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Multiple dangerous Autopilot regressions observed after accepted to FSD Beta

Hey all! First post, long time Tesla lover. Driving a Tesla Model 3, June 2020 model. Version 2022.12.3.20.

Recently got accepted into the FSD Beta and have been having fun with it, but this post is not directly about that.

I've done many long distance (12+ hour) road trips with my Tesla before having FSD, and Navigate on Autopilot worked pretty good. Yesterday I drove from Colorado to California, and was shocked at how poor Autopilot performed compared to previous trips. In some cases it was completely unusable, sometimes making dangerous and jarring decision. I've never seen these problems on previous road trips over many thousands of miles.

My questions are: has anyone else seen these issues? Are they known beta issues? Could there be a problem with my hardware (cameras etc?). And, is there a way to report it aside from pressing the Beta report button (which I did multiple times)?

Cameras were cleaned with lens cloths (for bare lenses) and Windex (for glass covered ones) before the drive and multiple times during the drive. I also made several dashcam recordings during these incidents and the camera footage looks fine for all 4 recording cameras. (How do I know if the other cameras are working well?)

Details:

Frequent and severe phantom braking. On the 22 hour drive, I had at least 30 instances of random and hard phantom breaking with Navigate on Autopilot engaged. Have never had so many instances of phantom braking before! It appeared to happen most often when cresting a small hill on rolling roads, especially in New Mexico. As best I can tell, when this happened, there was almost always a car in my lane FAR ahead (half mile or more), and when cresting the hill, it suddenly appeared in the visualization (far away), but Tesla reacted as if it were much closer, slamming the brakes. These phantom braking events were often hard enough to throw things off my seats and into the floor.

Frequent and annoying phantom lane changes. Often shortly after the phantom braking (but also at other random times), Tesla would suddenly signal to change into the passing lane for no reason. There was usually a car FAR ahead (half mile or more), but there was absolutely no reason to move over so soon. In fact, if I allowed the lane change, it would often move back after a minute. Sometimes this happened while other cars were about to overtake me. Only happened on highways with 2 lanes in one direction.

Flashing auto high beams. When dark, the auto high beams were continually flashing on and off. They didn't come on at an inappropriate time, but almost always 1-2 seconds after coming on, they would go off again even though there was no traffic around. This repeated constantly, super annoying and probably confusing drivers behind me. It's as if reflections from street signs were confusing it.

Computer lockup. The 347 road near Phoenix has stretches that alternate between FSD and Autopilot. As the car switched back and forth, the visualizations and touch screen became more and more glitchy, locking up for a few seconds, making strange noises that sounded like AP engaging/disengaging but choppy, and then finally froze up completely. Bluetooth audio stopped, climate control turned off, signals and hazard lights did nothing. I was able to steer, accelerate, and brake, so I pulled over and restarted the computer. After this, everything seemed fine again for the rest of the drive. Outside it was 115°F (46°C), not sure if heat was a factor. (All of the above-mentioned problems occurred both before and after the reboot.)

Appreciate any feedback! I'm driving back in a few weeks and hope to find a way to make all of this work properly again!

Tim
 

glide

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2018
5,506
7,779
USA
Hey all! First post, long time Tesla lover. Driving a Tesla Model 3, June 2020 model. Version 2022.12.3.20.

Recently got accepted into the FSD Beta and have been having fun with it, but this post is not directly about that.

I've done many long distance (12+ hour) road trips with my Tesla before having FSD, and Navigate on Autopilot worked pretty good. Yesterday I drove from Colorado to California, and was shocked at how poor Autopilot performed compared to previous trips. In some cases it was completely unusable, sometimes making dangerous and jarring decision. I've never seen these problems on previous road trips over many thousands of miles.

My questions are: has anyone else seen these issues? Are they known beta issues? Could there be a problem with my hardware (cameras etc?). And, is there a way to report it aside from pressing the Beta report button (which I did multiple times)?

Cameras were cleaned with lens cloths (for bare lenses) and Windex (for glass covered ones) before the drive and multiple times during the drive. I also made several dashcam recordings during these incidents and the camera footage looks fine for all 4 recording cameras. (How do I know if the other cameras are working well?)

Details:

Frequent and severe phantom braking. On the 22 hour drive, I had at least 30 instances of random and hard phantom breaking with Navigate on Autopilot engaged. Have never had so many instances of phantom braking before! It appeared to happen most often when cresting a small hill on rolling roads, especially in New Mexico. As best I can tell, when this happened, there was almost always a car in my lane FAR ahead (half mile or more), and when cresting the hill, it suddenly appeared in the visualization (far away), but Tesla reacted as if it were much closer, slamming the brakes. These phantom braking events were often hard enough to throw things off my seats and into the floor.

Frequent and annoying phantom lane changes. Often shortly after the phantom braking (but also at other random times), Tesla would suddenly signal to change into the passing lane for no reason. There was usually a car FAR ahead (half mile or more), but there was absolutely no reason to move over so soon. In fact, if I allowed the lane change, it would often move back after a minute. Sometimes this happened while other cars were about to overtake me. Only happened on highways with 2 lanes in one direction.

Flashing auto high beams. When dark, the auto high beams were continually flashing on and off. They didn't come on at an inappropriate time, but almost always 1-2 seconds after coming on, they would go off again even though there was no traffic around. This repeated constantly, super annoying and probably confusing drivers behind me. It's as if reflections from street signs were confusing it.

Computer lockup. The 347 road near Phoenix has stretches that alternate between FSD and Autopilot. As the car switched back and forth, the visualizations and touch screen became more and more glitchy, locking up for a few seconds, making strange noises that sounded like AP engaging/disengaging but choppy, and then finally froze up completely. Bluetooth audio stopped, climate control turned off, signals and hazard lights did nothing. I was able to steer, accelerate, and brake, so I pulled over and restarted the computer. After this, everything seemed fine again for the rest of the drive. Outside it was 115°F (46°C), not sure if heat was a factor. (All of the above-mentioned problems occurred both before and after the reboot.)

Appreciate any feedback! I'm driving back in a few weeks and hope to find a way to make all of this work properly again!

Tim
That’s FSD for you. Not sure what you expected. It’s no where near viable, and Elon’s reliance on vision-only is a giant leap backwards.
 
That’s FSD for you. Not sure what you expected. It’s no where near viable, and Elon’s reliance on vision-only is a giant leap backwards.
Oh yeah, I'm a software engineer; I use and test beta software all the time. I never said I expected anything but bugginess. I was hoping to hear actionable feedback from the community.

Tim
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
11,808
10,851
Visalia, CA
...has anyone else seen these issues?...
Yes.
Are they known beta issues?
Yes.
Could there be a problem with my hardware (cameras etc?)
You can clean your cameras, recalibrate them, reboot your car but I doubt its performance will be any better.
...is there a way to report it aside from pressing the Beta report button (which I did multiple times)?...
You can e-mail with your VIN, date, and time of the incident
...(How do I know if the other cameras are working well?)..
When there's no camera error messages
...Frequent and severe phantom braking...
Why do you think NHTSA has been opening the phantom brake investigation. Please go to its site and add your case.
...Frequent and annoying phantom lane changes...
That has been the case since day 1.
...Tesla would suddenly signal to change into the passing lane for no reason...
My navigation would say turn left and my FSD beta signals the right-turn lights and vice versa. Welcome to Tesla's software team.
...Flashing auto high beams...
Drivers have been complaining for years. It's like celebrating a Christmas light show. Welcome to Tesla's software team.
...As the car switched back and forth, the visualizations and touch screen became more and more glitchy, locking up for a few seconds, making strange noises that sounded like AP engaging/disengaging but choppy, and then finally froze up completely. Bluetooth audio stopped, climate control turned off, signals and hazard lights did nothing. I was able to steer, accelerate, and brake, so I pulled over and restarted the computer. After this, everything seemed fine again for the rest of the drive. Outside it was 115°F (46°C), not sure if heat was a factor. (All of the above-mentioned problems occurred both before and after the reboot.)...
Tesla needs to have a redundancy system: When one system reboots, the other would take over so you shouldn't lose audio, or HVAC.. in the meantime.
...hope to find a way to make all of this work properly again!...
Tesla doesn't believe in LIDAR nor does it have a redundancy system. Good luck!
 

glide

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2018
5,506
7,779
USA
Oh yeah, I'm a software engineer; I use and test beta software all the time. I never said I expected anything but bugginess. I was hoping to hear actionable feedback from the community.

Tim
Actionable feedback: opt out of FSD Beta or wait until Tesla comes up with a solution.

A real solution will involve radar and possibly LiDAR, which Tesla is moving away from or avoiding altogether.

So in short, the first option is really your only option if you don’t wish to experience these issues.
 
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Hey all! First post, long time Tesla lover. Driving a Tesla Model 3, June 2020 model. Version 2022.12.3.20.

Recently got accepted into the FSD Beta and have been having fun with it, but this post is not directly about that.

I've done many long distance (12+ hour) road trips with my Tesla before having FSD, and Navigate on Autopilot worked pretty good. Yesterday I drove from Colorado to California, and was shocked at how poor Autopilot performed compared to previous trips. In some cases it was completely unusable, sometimes making dangerous and jarring decision. I've never seen these problems on previous road trips over many thousands of miles.

My questions are: has anyone else seen these issues? Are they known beta issues? Could there be a problem with my hardware (cameras etc?). And, is there a way to report it aside from pressing the Beta report button (which I did multiple times)?

Cameras were cleaned with lens cloths (for bare lenses) and Windex (for glass covered ones) before the drive and multiple times during the drive. I also made several dashcam recordings during these incidents and the camera footage looks fine for all 4 recording cameras. (How do I know if the other cameras are working well?)

Details:

Frequent and severe phantom braking. On the 22 hour drive, I had at least 30 instances of random and hard phantom breaking with Navigate on Autopilot engaged. Have never had so many instances of phantom braking before! It appeared to happen most often when cresting a small hill on rolling roads, especially in New Mexico. As best I can tell, when this happened, there was almost always a car in my lane FAR ahead (half mile or more), and when cresting the hill, it suddenly appeared in the visualization (far away), but Tesla reacted as if it were much closer, slamming the brakes. These phantom braking events were often hard enough to throw things off my seats and into the floor.

Frequent and annoying phantom lane changes. Often shortly after the phantom braking (but also at other random times), Tesla would suddenly signal to change into the passing lane for no reason. There was usually a car FAR ahead (half mile or more), but there was absolutely no reason to move over so soon. In fact, if I allowed the lane change, it would often move back after a minute. Sometimes this happened while other cars were about to overtake me. Only happened on highways with 2 lanes in one direction.
Yep. Just did a 3,500 mile road trip and observed these same problems. What's weird is that these were all in Navigate on Autopilot; not FSD. I'd assume the code base for the former was unchanged in the FSD betas, but apparently that's not the case.
 
Yep. Just did a 3,500 mile road trip and observed these same problems. What's weird is that these were all in Navigate on Autopilot; not FSD. I'd assume the code base for the former was unchanged in the FSD betas, but apparently that's not the case.
Yes! I was thinking the same thing... I'm glad I'm not alone with these problems.

I noticed that FSD Beta sees vehicles much further away than previously. As a software engineer, my suspicion is that they enabled the improved distance vision algorithm also for Navigate with Autopilot but that older system has never been properly trained with distant vehicles so it glitches when it sees them. I could be wrong, but that's what seems to be happening; it is visualizing cars much further away than before and over-reacting.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
11,808
10,851
Visalia, CA
I think a few people failed to notice that he said it worked fine prior to his invitation.
That's how beta works. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

There's a YouTube where a dog was alone in a running Tesla on the road and nothing happened. If it's my dog's turn, it might be dead.



Navigation on Autopilot was first released in 2018 without the FSD beta and there was an explosion of complaints about how useless it was. It’s not because of the introduction of FSD beta in 2021 or 3 years later.

 
Last edited:

Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
3,814
4,361
Austin
Yes! I was thinking the same thing... I'm glad I'm not alone with these problems.

I noticed that FSD Beta sees vehicles much further away than previously. As a software engineer, my suspicion is that they enabled the improved distance vision algorithm also for Navigate with Autopilot but that older system has never been properly trained with distant vehicles so it glitches when it sees them. I could be wrong, but that's what seems to be happening; it is visualizing cars much further away than before and over-reacting.
I've noticed similar effects as well.
For example, I have found that fast corners that previous AP would handle as a smooth corner, this release has revered back several years and turns the corner as a an uncomfortable series of turn, drive straight, turn, drive straight etc.
I've noticed that with this release I'm using AP much less, its just not comfortable any longer. It doesn't help that we are waiting much longer for releases now, so who knows when it will get better.
Prior to joining the beta I remember AP was getting better and better, it feel like it has regressed.
I'm fearful that as Tesla push for the unified, single stack for AP and FSD, that AP will lose the progress it made.
 
I have the latest 2022.12.3.20 FSD beta code.

Couples of weeks ago I drove my model S between LA and San Francisco back and forth on NOA and didn't notice any difference. I specifically turned OFF FSD beta in Autopilot settings for the trip. I think I have seen enough of what the current FSD beta version can and can't do. I also don't want to use up my 5 strikes before the next update.😂

I think there are some conflict of parameters between the NOA code and the FSDk beta local street portion. Some buffers / memories are not cleaned up when switching back and forth.
 
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That's how beta works. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

There's a YouTube where a dog was alone in a running Tesla on the road and nothing happened. If it's my dog's turn, it might be dead.



Navigation on Autopilot was first released in 2018 without the FSD beta and there was an explosion of complaints about how useless it was. It’s not because of the introduction of FSD beta in 2021 or 3 years later.

Oh, I guess that explains it then. When OP said "I've done many long distance (12+ hour) road trips with my Tesla before having FSD, and Navigate on Autopilot worked pretty good.", that was the long period of working well for him, now he's entered the long period of it not working well for him.

*sigh*
 
Yes.

Yes.

You can clean your cameras, recalibrate them, reboot your car but I doubt its performance will be any better.

You can e-mail with your VIN, date, and time of the incident

When there's no camera error messages

Why do you think NHTSA has been opening the phantom brake investigation. Please go to its site and add your case.

That has been the case since day 1.

My navigation would say turn left and my FSD beta signals the right-turn lights and vice versa. Welcome to Tesla's software team.

Drivers have been complaining for years. It's like celebrating a Christmas light show. Welcome to Tesla's software team.

Tesla needs to have a redundancy system: When one system reboots, the other would take over so you shouldn't lose audio, or HVAC.. in the meantime.

Tesla doesn't believe in LIDAR nor does it have a redundancy system. Good luck!
so accurate on every point, fsdb was fun at first then a nightmare when traveling. It really sucked and sort glad it tripped out and suspended my car.
 
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miserable constant phantom braking for no apparent reason I tweak the wheel religiously and I just don’t get it why I’ve got three strikes against me. I thought one of the best things would be instead of having that little sentence down in the dash they could have a blinking small light for you where the windshield meets the dash. if they had a light there you wouldn’t have to take your eyes off the road at all.
to hell with FSD
 
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azred

Active Member
Apr 12, 2016
2,175
3,356
Chandler, AZ
I have had FSD Beta on both cars since 2021 and haven’t really noticed regression from pre-Beta days. However, screwy occurrences happen on every drive. When people ask me about autopilot and/or FSD Beta, my usual story is these products are like a 15-year old kid with a new learner’s permit. Eyesight and reflexes are much better than mine but requires constant monitoring.

The YouTube crew that rave about flawless performance on the Beta are surely full of themselves. Don’t believe them or expect any more than that kid with a learner’s permit. When I bought my S in 12/2016, FSD was projected to be making cross country trips with ease within a year or so. Reality is I don’t know if that will ever happen with this hardware. Unprotected lefts seem to require vision farther front of the driver. And the detachment of radar from both cars seems like a step backwards though I think I understood why it was done. Maybe better radar and/or LiDAR is what’s needed but there are now many millions of cars that would need costly upgrades, When my S received needed hardware upgrades, there were many fewer cars on the road.

Bottom line. I use FSD Beta daily but my wife won’t. She is probably typical of most drivers who will only use technology that works without babysitting it.
 
Last edited:

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
4,289
6,509
USA
I have had FSD Beta on both cars since 2021 and haven’t really noticed regression from pre-Beta days. However, screwy occurrences happen on every drive. When people ask me about autopilot and/or FSD Beta, my usual story is these products are like a 15-year old kid with a new learner’s permit. Eyesight and reflexes are much better than mine but requires constant monitoring.

The YouTube crew that rave about flawless performance on the Beta are surely full of themselves. Don’t believe them or expect any more than that kid with a learner’s permit. When I bought my S in 12/2016, FSD was projected to be making cross country trips with ease within a year or so. Reality is I don’t know if that will ever happen with this hardware. Unprotected lefts seem to require vision farther front of the driver. And the detachment of radar from both cars seems like a step backwards though I think I understood why it was done. Maybe better radar and/or LiDAR is what’s needed but there are now many millions of cars that would need costly upgrades, When my S received needed hardware upgrades, there were many fewer cars on the road.

Bottom line. I use FSD Beta daily but my wife won’t. She is probably typical of most drivers who will only use technology that works without babysitting it.
Gets them invited to the various Tesla events..
 
I recommend opting back out of the beta, or force yourself out with enough strikes. I opted out after I quickly learned how bad the phantom braking was without radar. Even with radar, I have seen a number of regressions to AP the last couple years. Boggles my mind how many people still believe true FSD is coming anytime soon when they can't even get the "simple" stuff right.
 
miserable constant phantom braking for no apparent reason I tweak the wheel religiously and I just don’t get it why I’ve got three strikes against me. I thought one of the best things would be instead of having that little sentence down in the dash they could have a blinking small light for you where the windshield meets the dash. if they had a light there you wouldn’t have to take your eyes off the road at all.
to hell with FSD
Interesting. I have never experienced anything like that at all. Looking at my log, I've driven over 6,000 miles on fsd beta and don't have a single strike (driving an MX) and I don't get phantom braking.
 
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