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Munro Tesla 3 Benchmarking Study: 50 internet refrences - what is up?

Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,975
2,052
Bainbridge Island, WA
Few have the time, so perhaps some crowd sourcing techniques might be applied?
Please have a look. At the end of this sales brochure for the Munro $70,000 report. You will find about 50 internet references. What do these links disclose, if anything. Analyse these references how ever you see fit.

Here is the Sales Brochure:
http://leandesign.com/pdf/Tesla-3-Analysis-Sales-Information.pdf
 

SMAlset

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2017
9,185
9,913
SF Bay Area
I'm sorry this is not going to be kind, at all. I skipped around and looked at a few of those links at the end of the pdf. The third link is a you tube video I'm scratching my head why they included and full of F*** words. Another link I clicked on was a twitter account that was Closed. Another was someone's 1 week old review of their car. The last link I clicked on was a imgru image of the wishbone suspension he showed on the Deep Dive Autoline segment/video where he admitted they have no idea why it was designed that way but might be for some dampening when AWD is installed. The caption to the image is something like why did they leave zip ties on this part? If this is typical of the kind of reports they put out I'm surprised people would pay this kind of money for it. I really don't think it's worth checking out any more links for my part.

Honestly this stuff is so amaturish. Maybe their customers don't know how to do a google search on their own but seriously what they linked to I'd fire whoever came up with this list. Based on my sampling nothing I saw of value and worth people's time to check out. Given the type size used on this document either they think everyone's eyesight is really bad or they are aiming to produce binders of pages of material to try to justify their work. Kind of reminds me of when desktop publishing first became available and you saw all kinds of ugly presentations and letters by people without design layout skill. Actually when I saw Munro hold up all those binders and reports the other day flipping through all the pages, I thought this looks to me like someone who thinks he's going to impress people with how many pages it contains. Not impressed. Pretty much tanked any positive feelings I had about their work.
 
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ToddRLockwood

Active Member
Sep 11, 2012
1,317
74
Burlington, Vermont
Few have the time, so perhaps some crowd sourcing techniques might be applied?
Please have a look. At the end of this sales brochure for the Munro $70,000 report. You will find about 50 internet references. What do these links disclose, if anything. Analyse these references how ever you see fit.

Here is the Sales Brochure:
http://leandesign.com/pdf/Tesla-3-Analysis-Sales-Information.pdf

The inclusion of this link speaks volumes...
 

omgwtfbyobbq

Active Member
Aug 24, 2013
1,450
1,612
Southern California
50 links and and not a single one for monorail car? Weak.

Grumpy-Cat-on-bed-544409.jpg
 
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T34ME

Active Member
Mar 31, 2016
2,262
3,528
Inland Empire
Despite having some nice things to say about Tesla engineering, Munro is a nincompoop. He cherry picks some negative comments for his links, including Seeking Alpha, and avoids any of the positive comments. I will not be watching his 90 minute video. He is a dinosaur who just doesn't get it, even Tesla's advanced engineering. I learn much more about the model 3 and Tesla right here on TMC.
 

novox77

1.21 Gigawatts
Nov 25, 2017
1,642
3,554
NH, MA
Despite having some nice things to say about Tesla engineering, Munro is a nincompoop. He cherry picks some negative comments for his links, including Seeking Alpha, and avoids any of the positive comments. I will not be watching his 90 minute video. He is a dinosaur who just doesn't get it, even Tesla's advanced engineering. I learn much more about the model 3 and Tesla right here on TMC.

I actually thought he was fair in this long video. He's impressed like hell about the electronics and the battery. And also the driving performance. Not so much with the manufacturing and fit/finish. It was good to hear that because some people like to say that poor fit and finish means poor quality pervades all aspects of the car. Clearly that's not the case.
 

igotzzoom

Active Member
May 26, 2013
1,217
585
Mission Viejo, CA
The fit & finish is part of the "top hat" which is relatively simple. That can be improved with iteration, quality control, worker familiarity with the assembly process, etc. The core electronics are more of an inherent part of the engineering, which is arguably a bigger deal in the greater scheme of things.
 

Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,975
2,052
Bainbridge Island, WA
The fit & finish is part of the "top hat" which is relatively simple. That can be improved with iteration, quality control, worker familiarity with the assembly process, etc. The core electronics are more of an inherent part of the engineering, which is arguably a bigger deal in the greater scheme of things.
AND not to forget that along with this continuous improvement of hardware are the Over the Air Software Updates.

thank you @igotzzoom
 

gtmotor

Member
Apr 8, 2018
218
328
Arizona
Despite having some nice things to say about Tesla engineering, Munro is a nincompoop. He cherry picks some negative comments for his links, including Seeking Alpha, and avoids any of the positive comments. I will not be watching his 90 minute video. He is a dinosaur who just doesn't get it, even Tesla's advanced engineering. I learn much more about the model 3 and Tesla right here on TMC.

Sandy is hardly a nincompoop but he has been around traditional auto manufacturers his whole career; what's why his opinion is usually coming from a certain angle.

Just reading TMC will give you a biased view due to the echo chamber that occurs from all of us who think the same way.

Watch the video and try to keep an open mind. He says Tesla will "mop the floor with everyone" and "even Toyota should be crapping their pants" as soon as they fix a few things. He's right on almost every front, Tesla has a lot to learn but even more to give to the auto industry as a whole. He hits the nail right on the head about automation and the lessons learned from others in the past. It was no surprise to me to see Elon's tweets about people being underrated and how they are going to be ditching a lot of the plans for new robots. I have the utmost respect for Elon in the fact that he will publically proclaim when he screws up and then moves to fix it.
 

igotzzoom

Active Member
May 26, 2013
1,217
585
Mission Viejo, CA
Yes. This discussion seems a lot more balanced than the prior one focusing on panel gaps, etc. Especially on the electronics front, he seems blown away by the level of sophistication.
 
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T34ME

Active Member
Mar 31, 2016
2,262
3,528
Inland Empire
Sandy is hardly a nincompoop but he has been around traditional auto manufacturers his whole career; what's why his opinion is usually coming from a certain angle.

Watch the video and try to keep an open mind.

I don't understand why he links to unverified posts from suspicious characters? Why does he link to Seeking Alpha? His links are not helpful and just spread FUD.

And TMC is far from an echo chamber. Various opinions abound here. Some I agree with and some I don't but at least there is a sort of checks and balances on the information presented. In my opinion, Munro operates in an echo chamber. There is no opportunity to present other opinions or counterpoints except on sites like TMC. He presents many of his opinions as facts. It is only fair to question some of his facts (opinions).

I am not interested in a biased report one way or the other. I want the honest facts from a professional, not opinions. Seeking Alpha is far from a fact based site. His links and unprofessional opinions really bring his credibility into question.
 

Cosmacelf

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2013
8,747
21,495
San Diego
Munro is a bit of an old dinosaur that isn’t on the same planet as Tesla. I listened to most of that 90 minute video where he was kibitzing with 4 other guys. I lost track of the number of times he said he just didn’t understand why Tesla did things a certain way, implying that if HE couldn’t understand it, it must have been for a dumb reason.

For example, he crapped all over Tesla’s back end panel or trunk design saying it had been made with 7 parts where it could have been made with one and weighed less. He was completely baffled why it was done this way. His problem is that he has no clue how Tesla really works.

Assuming that it was indeed a sub optimal design (big assumption), my guess is that they ran out of time to optimize that trunk assembly and they’ll get around to it in 6 months. Which is exactly what Tesla did with the Model S. The 2012 Model S and 2014 Model S cars, each ostensibly the same, have quite a lot different under the hood, so to speak. Tesla has been constantly under the gun to get new product lines out the door, but they make up for deficiencies by constantly improving their design and manufacturing processes.

Also, these dinosaurs go on about panel gaps. Yeah, there are some, small, minority of people who care more about panel gaps than the awesome way the car drives, so maybe a Model 3 isn’t for them. There are plenty of people who do want one, panel gaps and all.

Tesla makes it’s fair share of mistakes (as do the other car companies!), but it’s their speed of correction and speed of innovation that makes them stand apart.
 
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Sunlight

Member
May 7, 2014
329
729
South Africa
Didn't Tesla employ an ex-Audi production engineer from the A4 lines a couple of years ago to set up the Model 3 production?

I thought the whole idea at the time was to get this assembly stuff right; quick; efficient; reliable; consistent etc. The main thing that Tesla needed (still needs?!)

Does anyone have more information on this?
 

JoRey

Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
Feb 15, 2016
186
75
Anaheim, CA
Munro is a bit of an old dinosaur that isn’t on the same planet as Tesla. I listened to most of that 90 minute video where he was kibitzing with 4 other guys. I lost track of the number of times he said he just didn’t understand why Tesla did things a certain way, implying that if HE couldn’t understand it, it must have been for a dumb reason.

For example, he crapped all over Tesla’s back end panel or trunk design saying it had been made with 7 parts where it could have been made with one and weighed less. He was completely baffled why it was done this way. His problem is that he has no clue how Tesla really works.

Assuming that it was indeed a sub optimal design (big assumption), my guess is that they ran out of time to optimize that trunk assembly and they’ll get around to it in 6 months. Which is exactly what Tesla did with the Model S. The 2012 Model S and 2014 Model S cars, each ostensibly the same, have quite a lot different under the hood, so to speak. Tesla has been constantly under the gun to get new product lines out the door, but they make up for deficiencies by constantly improving their design and manufacturing processes.

Also, these dinosaurs go on about panel gaps. Yeah, there are some, small, minority of people who care more about panel gaps than the awesome way the car drives, so maybe a Model 3 isn’t for them. There are plenty of people who do want one, panel gaps and all.

Tesla makes it’s fair share of mistakes (as do the other car companies!), but it’s their speed of correction and speed of innovation that makes them stand apart.
i caught that too about the trunk. I have a theory as to the reason why it was designed that way. Elon wants to make the safest and best car in the world. I suspect that Elon tasked his engineers to design the rear to survive a hit from a truck, after he saw the aftermath of a crash that ultimately killed a child. No one test for rear end hits and i think that is the next big crash test.
 
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JoRey

Current Volt Owner, Aspiring Model III Owner
Feb 15, 2016
186
75
Anaheim, CA
Despite having some nice things to say about Tesla engineering, Munro is a nincompoop. He cherry picks some negative comments for his links, including Seeking Alpha, and avoids any of the positive comments. I will not be watching his 90 minute video. He is a dinosaur who just doesn't get it, even Tesla's advanced engineering. I learn much more about the model 3 and Tesla right here on TMC.
I suggest you watch the video there are some very interesting tidbits of the Model 3 more so then negative things against it.
 

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