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Musk confirms purpose of inside cabin camera

Are you going to activate the driver camera for autopilot?

  • Yes, activate the camera, I'm tired of holding the wheel!

    Votes: 33 64.7%
  • No, I''ll never do a software download again. Elon knows too much already.

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • No, I already have black electrician's tape over the camera.

    Votes: 14 27.5%

  • Total voters
    51

JeffK

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2016
6,997
6,932
Indianapolis
Sure, I'll help you out.

What do you think the main non retrofitable difference between AP1 and AP2 is?

Would you consider it an advancement of technology?


"With a new model coming this year, we know our customers will have questions about which car is right for them. One question we’ve been asked is, “Should I trade in my Model S for a Model 3?” While Model 3 will be our newest car, it isn’t “Version 3” or the next generation Tesla. Our higher priced premium models still include the most advanced technology and the best driving experience we have to offer."

If EM straight up does lie. Sky is orange type of lie. I assume 30% of TMC would find a way to make the sky orange.

Your first and second questions set up a strawman argument making an assumption that the increase in cost was solely due to cameras... which it's not. In addition, as mentioned, you can't retrofit due to the labor necessary to rewire. It's too expensive and you'd have to disassemble much of the car.

Second, a misinterpretation of a quote assuming that just because a feature is different that it must be in a model S/X first. This is absolutely not true and only applies to expensive, new, technology.

Third, you make an assumption that 30% of people blindly follow Elon Musk no matter what he says. Again, this is off topic. I even gave you a link to the video which he refutes your understanding of S/X being technology leaders.
 
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diplomat33

Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Aug 3, 2017
10,739
15,326
Terre Haute, IN USA
According to Musk, the inside cabin camera in the Model 3 will be used to make sure nobody messes with your car when you share it on the Tesla Network.

upload_2019-4-4_21-43-59.png

A couple thoughts:

1) Why not use the camera to monitor driver attention instead of nags? I know Musk said he dismissed the idea but it would be a more realistic short term use for the camera than a future Tesla Network, no? After all, the Tesla Network is still pretty far in the future but using the camera to monitor driver attention could be done probably much sooner. Plus, isn't using a camera to monitor driver attention a better system than the nags, especially if you want to do true hands free self-driving?

2) Does this mean that Tesla only plans to use Model 3's for the Tesla Network? Maybe Tesla thinks Model S's are too expensive for owners to want to use in a ride sharing network? Plus, there are more Model 3's on the road than Model S's.
 
According to Musk, the inside cabin camera in the Model 3 will be used to make sure nobody messes with your car when you share it on the Tesla Network.

View attachment 393891

A couple thoughts:

1) Why not use the camera to monitor driver attention instead of nags? I know Musk said he dismissed the idea but it would be a more realistic short term use for the camera than a future Tesla Network, no? After all, the Tesla Network is still pretty far in the future but using the camera to monitor driver attention could be done probably much sooner. Plus, isn't using a camera to monitor driver attention a better system than the nags, especially if you want to do true hands free self-driving?

2) Does this mean that Tesla only plans to use Model 3's for the Tesla Network? Maybe Tesla thinks Model S's are too expensive for owners to want to use in a ride sharing network? Plus, there are more Model 3's on the road than Model S's.

I would like it to be active for Sentry Mode and to view and record any motion in the cabin, when I’m not around.
 

C141medic

Active Member
Apr 9, 2016
1,714
1,582
New Jersey
I think he could’ve made better use of the inside camera. How many people are buying their car to put it up on a ride-sharing service? I didn’t buy mine for that and hopefully the camera will be used for purposes other posters have mentioned. Something similar to the system in the Cadillac would be great. And how about being able to recognize if the driver falls asleep and taking action accordingly?
 
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We're only about 10 years away from the car being capable and government approval of actually being able to send your car off to work without you. Advance thinking. In the meantime, would be nice if they would find a way to adopt the camera to a similar AP check to make sure the driver is paying attention rather than the useless nags every 13 seconds. Like Cadillac has done, camera could be programmed to make sure the driver is actually looking forward and paying attention.
 

zhu-

custom title
Oct 24, 2018
999
881
NJ
2) Does this mean that Tesla only plans to use Model 3's for the Tesla Network? Maybe Tesla thinks Model S's are too expensive for owners to want to use in a ride sharing network? Plus, there are more Model 3's on the road than Model S's.

Like Uber black and XL I'd imagine there would still be demand for S and X for those who want or need it. We'll have to see in the next vehicle update.

Somehow I also don't believe that's the real intention of the camera. Tesla network is still a long uncertain time away and we have no idea how many will actually let their cars go Uber themselves. For those who do plan on it, interior dashcams can be installed for nominal <$50 costs.
 
I have a sticker covering the camera and the sticker will remain there for as long as I own the car. I’m not buying my car to share it with strangers either so no need for an interior dash cam. Bottom line I just don’t feel comfortable that there’s a camera at my face whenever I’m driving the car.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,059
35,262
NC
1) Why not use the camera to monitor driver attention instead of nags? I know Musk said he dismissed the idea but it would be a more realistic short term use for the camera than a future Tesla Network, no? After all, the Tesla Network is still pretty far in the future but using the camera to monitor driver attention could be done probably much sooner. Plus, isn't using a camera to monitor driver attention a better system than the nags, especially if you want to do true hands free self-driving?


I think the camera system might simply not be good enough for that?

The one brand I know uses it is Caddy on their supercruise system- that uses an infrared camera mounted just above the steering column, with the driver’s face illuminated with IR LEDs built into the upper portion of the wheel.

With that, Super Cruise can track how often you’re looking at the road ahead versus when you’re looking down at the infotainment touchscreen, your phone, or just watching the scenery go by.


I think the Tesla rear view camera is...just a normal camera to notice if riders are ripping up seats and stuff.


If anyone knows its specs in more detail to disprove this idea, let me know.
 
Its there to be compliant with possible FSD regulations that require driver's face to be monitored. May never be required for that, but Tesla is just future proofing or else their entire investment would go down the drain with that regulation.
A FSD vehicle doesn't have a driver. How would that be a requirement?
 
A FSD vehicle doesn't have a driver. How would that be a requirement?

The gov is totally unclear on what the future will be and has talked about requiring face tracking for various levels of autonomy. Just saying, nobody knows and tesla needs to future proof it. Hopefully they will never have to use it, for privacy sake. Some other brands I believe currently utilize selfie camera face detection, I think the cadillac system.
 
The gov is totally unclear on what the future will be and has talked about requiring face tracking for various levels of autonomy. Just saying, nobody knows and tesla needs to future proof it. Hopefully they will never have to use it, for privacy sake. Some other brands I believe currently utilize selfie camera face detection, I think the cadillac system.
Waymo has a permit to test FSD in California with no driver in the car. What's the point of an autonomous taxi if it requires a driver?
The Cadillac system is a level 2 system like Tesla's Autopilot, so it requires the driver to pay attention. I suppose it's possible that they could add a camera requirement for level 2 vehicles.
 
Like Uber black and XL I'd imagine there would still be demand for S and X for those who want or need it. We'll have to see in the next vehicle update.

Somehow I also don't believe that's the real intention of the camera. Tesla network is still a long uncertain time away and we have no idea how many will actually let their cars go Uber themselves. For those who do plan on it, interior dashcams can be installed for nominal <$50 costs.

Yeah, they cut costs by removing a simple rain sensor, but added an interior camera for potential ride-sharing in 5-10 years? It's an odd choice. I suspect we'll see it on the refreshed S/X and it'll be used for at least Sentry. If it's cheap enough to put on a Model 3, it can go on the other vehicles.

I'm not so sure about using the camera for alertness. Cadilac uses an infrared camera on the steering column looking straight up at the driver. And even that system has issues with things like bright sunlight. By comparison, the Model 3's wide-angle camera has very little resolution dedicated to the driver's face. And what about nighttime?

I can see a requirement for an interior camera in regulations on the path to Level 5, specifically around Level 3 ("conditional automation"). Level 3 needs to know a driver can "take control of the vehicle at all times with notice." The interior camera could probably be used for this. Or, at least, to have a record that a driver was indeed available to take over.
 
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Actually, more details from Elon on Twitter: "Also, it can be used to supplement cameras on outside of vehicle, as it can see through 2nd side windows & rear window. Only external cameras are being used right now, so internal is not enabled. When it is enabled, we’ll add a setting to disable internal camera."

Interesting that now Elon is specifically saying the Model 3 has more sensor redundancy than the S/X? It doesn't sound like a major data source, but the idea it can be used by the AP hardware is quite interesting.
 
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