TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Musk confirms/Tesla Refutes upgradeability from MCU1 to MCU2

Discussion in 'Model S' started by emmz0r, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    3,524
    Location:
    Bay Area
    Just to clarify: I’m not saying that there’s super easy drop in replacements for the hardware. They definitely aren’t taking off the shelf board designs and if they are to spin it, it should be worth it. I said that earlier too — if they rev these designs it should be worth doing so.

    I have “disdain” for these facts because I’ve spent 15+ years of 80 hour work weeks designing and bringing up these kinds of platforms on a wide variety of architectures and the work I’m seeing them produce fails to impress me.

    I’ve never gone through a product cycle and was like “gee wow I’m happy with every choice made”. But maybe the marketing team spins that to be a technological breakthrough but from a technical standpoint, no, the Tesla MCUs get the job done but I’m not going to glorify them to any extent.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  2. Loco_Nomad

    Loco_Nomad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    NorCal
    does 2014 MS has MCU1 or pre MCU1 lol, are MCU2s much better, what are pros of MCU2 if installed in pre facelift car? and I guess the price?
     
  3. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,188
    Location:
    Intermountain US
    #363 Krash, May 11, 2019
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
    Early MCU1 cars had 3G mobile data and as I understand it, first came with a lower resolution instrument cluster (IC). Later MCUs (think of them as MCU1.1) had 4G\LTE mobile data. At some point the IC resolution increased. MCU2 has a significantly faster processor AND added Bluetooth (phone) key ability (which has not been enabled on the S/X) and added newer, higher speed wifi (802.11ac) which is enabled. The latter two were accompanied by new wiring in the harness, so possibly the only benefit of a retrofit is processor speed, although some think the new wifi would have some benefits piggybacking on the old antenna.

    One drawback of the new MCU2 is MCU2 IC is just a display, so if the MCU2 fails, the IC fails. Most speculate that an MCU2 retrofit would require an IC retrofit as well as a tuner/radio retrofit.
     
    • Informative x 4
  4. KArnold

    KArnold Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2017
    Messages:
    288
    Location:
    Columbus OH
    Agree. I drank the kool-aid. In my ignorance of believing the lies I was duped. It's probably the worst financial decision I've made. I regret it. Things will be made right.

    But fool me once...
     
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  5. Mr.D

    Mr.D Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Norway
    #365 Mr.D, May 11, 2019
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
    From a performance perspective it is clear that the MCU1 sucks compared to MCU2. But from a functional perspective, what features does the MCU2 have that the MCU1 does not?
    And I don’t mean to-be features, but as is 2019.12.1...

    MCU2 have chromium browser? What else? More Atari games?

    I complete list/spreadsheet comparison would be awesome, both showing the difference in hardware specks but also features! But for my part, at this point I am mostly wondering about the features.
     
  6. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,223
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    A better browser is potentially a big deal, as without a functional App Store, the browser is the window into the world which we can extend the functions of the car.

    For example, someone made a web site which would allow Spotify to sort of work. Additional capabilities like that can follow in the future. But only if you have MCU2
     
    • Like x 3
  7. whitex

    whitex Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,283
    Location:
    Seattle area, WA
    It's not "just a CPU", it's a System On Chip. Replacing it would be like moving from AMD based laptop to Intel based one, except standard Linux distro doesn't support such new configuration, so all new drivers, all new optimization, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, yet another MCU to test updates on, times the number of configurations MCU1 had, so if we only consider MCU1+AP1, MCU1+AP2, MCU1+AP2.5, and in the future MCU1+AP3 (AP2 cars with MCU which paid for FSD, therefore are owed an upgrade). So, making an upgrade to MCU1 would add at least 4 configurations to test new software releases on. Tesla already has enough problems with the myriad of configurations they are obligated to support, they don't want to make the problem worse.

    So, as much as I it would be nice to upgrade, I think it's very unlikely, even though Elon tweeted otherwise.
     
    • Helpful x 3
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 2
  8. bmah

    bmah Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Lafayette, CA, USA
    Thanks, I forgot the SOC aspect. I think the post to which I was replying was assuming there was a faster, but otherwise identical SOC to upgrade to. The point about further combinational explosion of configurations is even stronger, as you (correctly) point out. I wish there was a "like"-style button for "sadly nodding my head in agreement".

    Bruce.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. whitex

    whitex Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,283
    Location:
    Seattle area, WA
    So what you're saying is if someone was naive enough to buy stuff from Elon based on his word, it's their own fault for not getting what they paid for. I guess you could say the same about anyone who gave money to Bernie Madoff, or invested their retirements in any funds which would give Bernie your money. They all should have known better, so it's their own fault, right?
     
    • Love x 5
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  10. whitex

    whitex Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    4,283
    Location:
    Seattle area, WA
    #370 whitex, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    Usually the next generation SoC will come with next generation peripherals (graphics, network, etc) and likely new CPU's, so all drivers, power management, etc is new. As @rooter mentioned on this thread, Tesla modified the standard VCM module, and probably also customized their own software, so any upgrades would require a lot of work from Tesla. Had they used the module "as is" and with manufacturer provided firmware (OS+drivers), they could probably try going to the next gen module and just re-validate the applications. It seems they customized mostly to make it incompatible. In the end, and this is just my personal opinion, it seems Elon had no experience shipping hardware, and had never realized the support burned being self-imposed on a company by releasing ever changing hardware platforms for a product which has a 12+ year lifecycle. There is a reason why other companies don't release new and improved hardware every 2 weeks (something Elon was once proud of) - it creates a service and support nightmare. In Elon's defence, he is pioneering internet connected IoT embedded products with 12+ years of expected lifetime. The only internet connected software with that kind of support to date has been Microsoft Windows, though even Microsoft is trying to cut things off a decade later today. Maybe the problem is that rapid prototyping on actual product and selling products with long term support just doesn't mix.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Alset4S

    Alset4S Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2018
    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Illinois
    The Spotify app you referred to is working just fine on my MCU1 2016 MS.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Canada
    New mcu has 5G Wifi
    Extra Bluetooth antenna
    This is needed for key on the phone like model 3
     
  13. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,223
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    I am not taking about the Tesla built in Spotify that EU customers get. I am talking the site that uses BT to sync with your phone to use the Tesla screen as a Spotify remote. Did it actually work with your MCU1 browser? I can’t even get that to load google search.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. bmah

    bmah Moderator, Model S/X, California Forums

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    2,541
    Location:
    Lafayette, CA, USA
    Moderator note: Snipped some posts for language.

    Let's keep it clean, folks. Thanks.

    Bruce.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Funny x 1
  15. ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️

    ⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️ In loving memory of Version 8

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,034
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    But Elon told us we would all be getting phone as fob functionality too. So he must be planning on upgrading all of us to MCU2s. It’s a good thing he’s worth billions.
     
    • Funny x 1
  16. rooter

    rooter Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Corona del Mar
    #376 rooter, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
    You've taken my assertion that as adults we are all responsible for our decisions... and bent it to your warped agenda, whitex.

    You claim that someone, anyone, bought a $100k car because Elon (incorrectly) projected that the MCU hardware would be replaced! Preposterous.

    And you make the hyperbolic conflation with Bernie Madoff? This is called 'propaganda', whitex. Worthless chaff. Again I remind you that your jealousy of Elon is showing.

    The disturbing thing is 4 people agreed with you. Sometimes I despair for our public education system...
     
    • Like x 1
    • Funny x 1
  17. Alset4S

    Alset4S Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2018
    Messages:
    384
    Location:
    Illinois
    So am I. Connected to the Tesplay app from browser in the S.
    So am I. I connected to Tesplayer using the cars browser. See link
    TesPlayer brings Spotify access to Tesla Model S, 3, X owners
     
    • Informative x 1
  18. BigD0g

    BigD0g Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,857
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Correct, but we did for FSD, and that seems exceedingly unlikely as time goes on, at least true FSD, not the water downed stuff they have on the website today. Good thing those regulators that nobody except Elon knows are holding us back. I’d hate to think Elon was over selling current capabilities to make a sale now for some future promise you’ll need to buy a new car on to deliver...
     
    • Like x 3
    • Funny x 3
  19. SO16

    SO16 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages:
    958
    Location:
    MI
    Well..... I got my 90D (with MCU 1) shortly after the 100D was announced for the same price. Still enjoy my car though.
     
    • Like x 3
  20. rooter

    rooter Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Corona del Mar
    Sure and I agree with you, but this thread is about MCU1==>MCU2.

    I sympathize with the gigantic challenges Elon has and give him all due credit for the incredible and unprecedented things he's done. Fact is FSD is New Science and a manager can only go by what his best people tell him. Sure there's a promotional aspect, but he's agreed to replace AP2 and 2.5 with 3 for free. That is a tremendous expense when you consider R&D, and was a big factor in the need for this latest Raise.

    If I had bought for FSD I'd resent it, and alot of owners will be out to take as much as they can in this situation, since we have decided to have an adversarial society. Given the limitations of physics he's up against and the unexplored nature of the challenge, yes he muffed it but I am glad he exists.
     
    • Like x 2

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC