Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

PRLM3

Member
Feb 16, 2019
125
59
Florida
I think this system is designed to heavily favor those living around open roads with minimal traffic. Early FSD distributions should perform much better in such environments as the kinks are worked out - and it gradually spreads to more trafficked areas with generally lower safety scores.
Actually that would make sense since it’s pretty much impossible to drive in real world traffic and get anywhere near a 100, unless you are completely willing to piss people off (take your life in your hands), run orange/red lights and just generally drive unsafely.
 

nilesborg

Member
Jul 8, 2021
60
108
San Francisco, CA
While I currently sport a score of 99, I most likely will withdraw from the program before the week is up. My experience with this has been anything but enjoyable. As many have stated, this PoS system dings you for autopilot following distance, even at max settings. There are many other issues as reported as well. Most of you will sitting be trying to get the software many weeks after the button was launched. Mark my words. Not worth it for me. I’m going to enjoy my car and perhaps get this beta when it’s mass released “in two weeks”.
I'm starting to feel this way as well..
 

Durwood101

Member
Jun 26, 2020
93
84
Escondido
Guys, i hate to say this but i have driven every day this past week and i have a 99, im not driving any differently than i did before, i drive conservatively, i drive 72 on freeway and obey the speed limit on city streets. For the life of me i cant believe some of the scores some of you are receiving unless yoy are “racing around”? If you want so badly to be in the beta.. some of you WILL have to change your driving habits, if you cant do that then hang back and wait.
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
11,540
32,145
Seattle, WA
Have to agree. I got dinged for hard braking when I came across a mattress in the middle of the road on a turn. Of course I braked. That’s not unsafe, it’s the opposite.
What is unsafe is the area you drive around (esp. for fsd beta). ;)
 

novox77

1.21 Gigawatts
Nov 25, 2017
2,212
4,686
NH, MA
Guys, i hate to say this but i have driven every day this past week and i have a 99, im not driving any differently than i did before, i drive conservatively, i drive 72 on freeway and obey the speed limit on city streets. For the life of me i cant believe some of the scores some of you are receiving unless yoy are “racing around”? If you want so badly to be in the beta.. some of you WILL have to change your driving habits, if you cant do that then hang back and wait.

haha you are one of the people who think they are safer than the average driver, and you actually are!

Curious though, during your ownership of your car, have you ever gotten a front collision warning? I'm driving similarly to my normal style (efficiency-focused) and am scoring well, but historically I do get the occasional FCW. I've been taking more precautions to avoid those situations during this last week, since FCWs can wreck your score easily, and you don't have to be "racing around" to get them.

Driving speed limit on local roads here will really annoy people, and I am hyper-aware of annoying other drivers, so I tend to just go with the flow and leave extra room for braking. For corners, I do slow down in advance, likely to speeds that might annoy some, but then I accelerate hard afterward and place distance on anyone who started to tailgate me. This buys me some time for the next corner :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr. J

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,787
8,624
Seattle area, WA
@whitex But Elon claims the current FSD is already safer than a driver and the new Beta is better yet. So in a sense those with the worse score should get it first.
Perhaps, but wrong conclusion. Elon wants to continue to be able to claim that FSD is safer than drivers, hence the Safety Score, which helps to make sure that only cars+drivers which don't drive in challenging or dangerous situations get to use FSD and contribute to the safety statistics of FSD. Hence the Safety Score, which is an attempt to quantify the likelihood of that specific car+driver+environment_it_drives_in is going to wreck the FDS safety record. It's essentially cherry-picking your data set by making sure the data which does not agree with your premise is never generated. Elon will then make a conclusion comparing miles per accident of people using FSD, vs. miles per accident for the general public (the comparison he has always used in the past). Most people don't understand statistics, nor will they dig into the details of how the data was collected and calculated, so Elon will make sure that he doesn't actually lie but frame his message in such a way as to imply that "FSD is better than average driver in all situations", which his fans will swear by.

It's like a private aircraft manufacturer disallowing a sale of their product to dangerous flying environments and/or pilots with bad safety records, in order to keep their product safety record clean. Accident counts as an accident in statistics, no matter who or what caused it.
 
Last edited:

ATPMSD

Member
Mar 12, 2021
432
418
Atlanta, GA
Perhaps, but wrong conclusion

My comment was a joke!

But IMHO the current implementation of the Safety Score is a bad idea as the assumptions it uses have not been validated and using the Safety Score to arrive at any conclusion is irresponsible.

It's like a private aircraft manufacturer disallowing a sale of their product to dangerous flying environments and/or pilots with bad safety records, in order to keep their product safety record clean

The manufacturers have no such power; this would land them in court. For pilots, the FAA is responsible for safety.

Accident counts as an accident in statistics, no matter who or what caused it.

While technically correct the statement is pointless, statistics in isloation are meaningless. This is why we investigate accidents, the CAUSES are what is important as this allows us to reduce accidents.


With all that said, companies do have the right to establish Beta programs and to establish rules for being a Beta user. I, like may others, just feel the Safety Score is currently deeply flawed, but Tesla has the right to be stuipd.
 

spokey

Member
Aug 8, 2020
888
475
Flagtown
Actually that would make sense since it’s pretty much impossible to drive in real world traffic and get anywhere near a 100, unless you are completely willing to piss people off (take your life in your hands), run orange/red lights and just generally drive unsafely.
disagree. I had perfect score until yesterday and got a hard brake when I crested a hill and and found a bunch of stopped cars. My one and only ding. The score still indicates a 100 although the braking has a .1 there. The only change in driving has been to be careful with acceleration. Figure it's too easy to get dinged with that especially with boost.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2015
6,787
8,624
Seattle area, WA
My comment was a joke!

But IMHO the current implementation of the Safety Score is a bad idea as the assumptions it uses have not been validated and using the Safety Score to arrive at any conclusion is irresponsible.
d, but Tesla has the right to be stuipd.
It will be an interactive process to tweak the safety score to number of accidents, then only allow FSD usage on cars with score which correlated to least accidents.

The manufacturers have no such power; this would land them in court. For pilots, the FAA is responsible for safety.
Another joke? If not, search this forum for people who have been banned from buying a Tesla. Try to buy a Ferrari supercar if you diss it on social media or sell it before owning it a year or two (I don't remember the period exactly, but Ferrari is pretty clear on that). If you want an example from the aircraft industry, try to buy a Robinson helicopter if you have crashed one before. Manufacturers absolutely have the right to refuse to sell to anyone they wish, as long as it's not based on the specific set of criteria which is protected under anti-discrimination laws (such as your skin color).

While technically correct the statement is pointless, statistics in isloation are meaningless. This is why we investigate accidents, the CAUSES are what is important as this allows us to reduce accidents.
Of course, but the general public doesn't understand statistics, therefore you can use such meaningless statistics to create hype on the internet - something Elon is truly the master of.
 

Mr. Michael

Member
Oct 2, 2019
95
99
Wisconsin
So all of you are trying to emulate driving like a scared grandma to get a system that will in all likelihood drive you around like a scared grandma that you have to babysit. Driver education teachers actually get paid. I didn’t pay for this to find a job as a driver ed teacher. I chose not to ask for this, as they can’t even identify speed limits and stop signs reliably in the area I live. I chose to wait until the product is released to regular people, but given everything I have seen, the only value I will ever get from it is what I have now, and really its only for NoA. Just drove my wife’s Y without FSD for 600 miles and the constant dinging every time you change lanes to reset the steering is pretty goofy. My 3 with FSD at least can do that, and really, thats about all it can do. Seems like all of you are participating in some kind of reality show to entertain musk & co.
 

sleepydoc

Member
Aug 2, 2020
393
380
Minneapolis
So all of you are trying to emulate driving like a scared grandma to get a system that will in all likelihood drive you around like a scared grandma that you have to babysit. Driver education teachers actually get paid. I didn’t pay for this to find a job as a driver ed teacher. I chose not to ask for this, as they can’t even identify speed limits and stop signs reliably in the area I live. I chose to wait until the product is released to regular people, but given everything I have seen, the only value I will ever get from it is what I have now, and really its only for NoA. Just drove my wife’s Y without FSD for 600 miles and the constant dinging every time you change lanes to reset the steering is pretty goofy. My 3 with FSD at least can do that, and really, thats about all it can do. Seems like all of you are participating in some kind of reality show to entertain musk & co.
Kudos to you for recognizing that and deciding not to participate; There are many others who seem to be getting nothing but stress and angst over this which makes no sense to me.

Someone else posted on this (or another thread) that Tesla is not necessarily screening the drivers (or at least not solely the drivers) with this program, but also screening the environments. It makes sense for them to start with 'easy' environments and drivers who have shown that they can be conservative when they first expand beta testing. After all, if the software can't handle the easy stuff, how is it going to do with the harder conditions?

I and others have also wondered (and bemoaned) how the rating system will penalize you for 'mistakes' that happen while on autopilot, but in a sense that's probably what Tesla wants. If they are looking for environments to test the new software, does it really help them if someone never uses autopilot?

In the end, most people here are viewing this as some sort of contest or screening where they get the 'prize' of FSD Beta if they do well enough. In reality, Tesla isn't looking for drivers that they can 'reward,' they're simply looking for good candidates to test the new software. Reading any more into it than that is pointless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jebinc

HighZ

Member
Apr 30, 2019
298
406
Rockford, IL
I personally think that the fear of lots of accidents if they start adding thousands of drivers to the beta is overblown.
They are going to add them to those that are getting a good safety score, so they know that there is high level of awareness. Also, most of us drive the same route so we will know when to be hyper-vigilant. On a new route, I am always more cautious when on AP. I believe those that use AP now are already trained to monitor the car and especially for those with the top safety scores.
 

qdeathstar

Completely Serious
May 17, 2019
3,916
4,187
VB
I personally think that the fear of lots of accidents if they start adding thousands of drivers to the beta is overblown.
They are going to add them to those that are getting a good safety score, so they know that there is high level of awareness. Also, most of us drive the same route so we will know when to be hyper-vigilant. On a new route, I am always more cautious when on AP. I believe those that use AP now are already trained to monitor the car and especially for those with the top safety scores.
At least one person will post a video of them yoloing it. I think within the first month or two of the rollout one accident might cause serious problems, one fatality certainly will, and one non-driver fatality could risk the entire future of full self driving.

Based on the videos I’ve seen of beta, all those outcomes are possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mhan00 and edseloh

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC