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BillC

Member
Apr 8, 2014
42
11
Boca Raton, Florida
The scoring system is absurd. It penalized me for “following to closely” during which time I had cruise control on. So it penalized itself. I also have a turn onto my street off of a major 6 lane road that requires “aggressive steering” in order to be safe. Penalized for that too.
I’ve had the same issue: need to make quick 90° turn into my driveway from 30 mph road with someone always tailgating. Got dinged. Then this Sunday morning at 8 am I-95 was nearly empty. Some guy cut in front of me and accelerated away. Probably mad at my driving speed limit. Got dinged again for “following too close.”
 

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GlmnAlyAirCar

Active Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,627
1,513
Sanatoga PA
Guys, i hate to say this but i have driven every day this past week and i have a 99, im not driving any differently than i did before, i drive conservatively, i drive 72 on freeway and obey the speed limit on city streets. For the life of me i cant believe some of the scores some of you are receiving unless yoy are “racing around”? If you want so badly to be in the beta.. some of you WILL have to change your driving habits, if you cant do that then hang back and wait.
I agree. It’s practically effortless to maintain a 99.
 
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dckiwi

Member
Aug 12, 2016
474
904
Reston, VA
No, not really
Sorry, my response sounded a little glib. Here's what I mean. We don't know how many people 'pressed the button', but estimates are in the neighborhood of 20k-50k people.

Elon has indicated they will release to 1k vehicles/day, starting this Friday for those with a score of 100. I would argue that - given your point that it's 'basically effortless' to maintain a 99, there are probably a large number of people in that cohort. So over the first few days they might get through the 100s, and then begin a long rollout to the 99s.

At the same time, I think there's a high likelihood that they pause the rollout multiple times, potentially for extended periods. So the point I'm making is that if you're not in the first few days (the 100s and some of the 99s) you may not see it for a while. Just my opinion.
 

jebinc

MSM Model S PLAID, cream/FSD; MYP, white on white
Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2019
7,483
10,393
Seattle area
Sorry, my response sounded a little glib. Here's what I mean. We don't know how many people 'pressed the button', but estimates are in the neighborhood of 20k-50k people.

Elon has indicated they will release to 1k vehicles/day, starting this Friday for those with a score of 100. I would argue that - given your point that it's 'basically effortless' to maintain a 99, there are probably a large number of people in that cohort. So over the first few days they might get through the 100s, and then begin a long rollout to the 99s.

At the same time, I think there's a high likelihood that they pause the rollout multiple times, potentially for extended periods. So the point I'm making is that if you're not in the first few days (the 100s and some of the 99s) you may not see it for a while. Just my opinion.
Hmmm, where have I heard that before…..
 
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GlmnAlyAirCar

Active Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,627
1,513
Sanatoga PA
Sorry, my response sounded a little glib. Here's what I mean. We don't know how many people 'pressed the button', but estimates are in the neighborhood of 20k-50k people.

Elon has indicated they will release to 1k vehicles/day, starting this Friday for those with a score of 100. I would argue that - given your point that it's 'basically effortless' to maintain a 99, there are probably a large number of people in that cohort. So over the first few days they might get through the 100s, and then begin a long rollout to the 99s.

At the same time, I think there's a high likelihood that they pause the rollout multiple times, potentially for extended periods. So the point I'm making is that if you're not in the first few days (the 100s and some of the 99s) you may not see it for a while. Just my opinion.
And I didn’t say I had a 99 😉

but the truth is people are way too obsessed with getting the beta first. They are stressing out over an arbitrary score that, within a few weeks (at least for those in the upper 90s) will be irrelevant. I have too much to do with my worry about that.

There were two events over the last week that brought my score down. First was a FCW on day 1. Someone pulled out of a parking lot without stopping and made a left in front of me. i didn’t brake right away because, you know, I was mad. So I waited until I was a little closer. Never a collision threat but it taught me a lesson: even though I was capable of avoiding the accident even if I waited, it still wasn’t a wise thing to do. I will try to do better.

The other event was not as clear cut. I’m driving on AP on a straight two lane road I drive every day. A car ahead of me stops to turn left and AP slows. The car ahead makes its turn and AP begins to accelerate. But then the light turns yellow. In this case instincts took over and I disengaged AP and slowed somewhat rapidly. going downhill didn’t help. Ding. I probably should have just let AP stop in it’s own. Oh well.

Fortunately I drive a lot of miles, so it didn’t take long to bring the score back up.

So, in a nutshell, I am learning a few things by what the score is telling me. But I am not obsessing over the numbers. In 35 years of driving I have never been involved in anything worse than a fender bender and only one has been my fault. I have never received a speeding ticket, just one ticket for rolling a stop sign in my youth. So i would consider myself a safe driver. But there is always room for improvement, and the Safety Score has alerted me to areas that I can address.
 
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dckiwi

Member
Aug 12, 2016
474
904
Reston, VA
They are stressing out over an arbitrary score that, within a few weeks (at least for those in the upper 90s) will be irrelevant.
I think this is the key difference of opinion between us. I think that there is a high likelihood that Tesla will widen the beta initially, and then put it on hold for weeks or potentially months. Of course I could be wrong, but this has been their approach so far, and who knows what will happen when the first 5-10k owners get it.

I really hope you're right though!
 

GlmnAlyAirCar

Active Member
Mar 19, 2015
1,627
1,513
Sanatoga PA
I think this is the key difference of opinion between us. I think that there is a high likelihood that Tesla will widen the beta initially, and then put it on hold for weeks or potentially months. Of course I could be wrong, but this has been their approach so far, and who knows what will happen when the first 5-10k owners get it.

I really hope you're right though!
I could be right, I could be wrong. But I’m trying not to stress over it. (and I am fairly certain I will still have my 100 come next Friday)
 

dckiwi

Member
Aug 12, 2016
474
904
Reston, VA
Can you cite examples of that "approach" ?

Once they start expanding by thousands - they haven't deferred by more than a week or so.
I am referring to their *very* conservative approach to expanding the beta (which is understandable).

For example, the button was first promised during 8.x, and presumably pulled because adding even a small number of people to the beta was too risky at that time. Then when the button was finally introduced, it evolved from ‘anyone who wants the beta can have it’ to ‘you can request it and we’ll decide based on safety score.’

And even then, the plan to expand the beta with 10.1 got pushed a week for 10.2. Why not add beta users to 10.1? Too risky presumably.

I think Elon is trying to balance two competing priorities. On the one hand, he has to give *something* to FSD purchasers, many of whom have been waiting for years.

On the other hand, Tesla has almost nothing to gain - and a lot to lose - by adding tens of thousands of cars to the beta within a short period of time (days/weeks).

Every beta user is an FSD accident waiting to happen, with 8 cameras ready to record the crash for easy sharing on social media.

I hope I’m wrong. I hope two weeks from next Friday there are 14,000 new beta testers. I just don’t think that’s going to happen, which is why having a score of 100 really matters (and even that may not be enough).
 

Durwood101

Member
Jun 26, 2020
93
84
Escondido
haha you are one of the people who think they are safer than the average driver, and you actually are!

Curious though, during your ownership of your car, have you ever gotten a front collision warning? I'm driving similarly to my normal style (efficiency-focused) and am scoring well, but historically I do get the occasional FCW. I've been taking more precautions to avoid those situations during this last week, since FCWs can wreck your score easily, and you don't have to be "racing around" to get them.

Driving speed limit on local roads here will really annoy people, and I am hyper-aware of annoying other drivers, so I tend to just go with the flow and leave extra room for braking. For corners, I do slow down in advance, likely to speeds that might annoy some, but then I accelerate hard afterward and place distance on anyone who started to tailgate me. This buys me some time for the next corner :D
I have gotten a front FCW, but not since I kept my eyes on the road....lol. All kidding aside, i usually dont. I dont usually tailgate people, and I know that doing that will open up the "tempermental" triggering of the FCW. I probably do irritate people when I take turns gently, and my Model S doesnt get ridden that hard day in/day out. Maybe Im not the typical person driving a Model S. I had a 4.9% Unsafe Following........lol. I guess I do tailgate? I dont know, its kind of funny, my kid thinks its a game and I guess it sort of is in a way. Some of you here think this is possibly Musk manipulating us with the whole FSD Beta thing, and thats probably true. Im only one of probably thousands of people who have at least a 98% or better, so by no means does that mean I will be getting the beta, but if I dont, thats fine. Eventually, we will all get to experience it.
 

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dckiwi

Member
Aug 12, 2016
474
904
Reston, VA
I am referring to their *very* conservative approach to expanding the beta (which is understandable).

For example, the button was first promised during 8.x, and presumably pulled because adding even a small number of people to the beta was too risky at that time. Then when the button was finally introduced, it evolved from ‘anyone who wants the beta can have it’ to ‘you can request it and we’ll decide based on safety score.’

And even then, the plan to expand the beta with 10.1 got pushed a week for 10.2. Why not add beta users to 10.1? Too risky presumably.

I think Elon is trying to balance two competing priorities. On the one hand, he has to give *something* to FSD purchasers, many of whom have been waiting for years.

On the other hand, Tesla has almost nothing to gain - and a lot to lose - by adding tens of thousands of cars to the beta within a short period of time (days/weeks).

Every beta user is an FSD accident waiting to happen, with 8 cameras ready to record the crash for easy sharing on social media.

I hope I’m wrong. I hope two weeks from next Friday there are 14,000 new beta testers. I just don’t think that’s going to happen, which is why having a score of 100 really matters (and even that may not be enough).
PS I know betting on further delays of the beta rollout doesn’t exactly make me Nostradamus 😂
 
Mar 18, 2016
175
149
SF Bay Area
No accidents or tickets in 30 years. I believe I have proved I can drive safely. I exit my neighborhood at 10MPH, due to construction work, take a right well after all cars have passed onto a state highway, where I put it on autopilot and do the limit. In order to follow safely, I leave a gap, and people cut in front of me. While people say you can do no wrong on AP, the moment you need to take over and apply brakes, AP turns off. Then, you get dinged for braking or FCW. Car's have brakes for a reason. Am I supposed to brake as slowly as possible, or brake as necessary to keep safe ? Unfortunately, this also encourages running yellow lights, and I may contact NHTSA myself (it's not that hard, because they want info) and go over the "Scoring System Beta" with them. It is very fair in certain situations, almost impossible in others.

It appears to be identifying high risk areas, rather than high risk drivers, and if AP is much more reliable than a bad driver, the rollout should begin with lowest scores if the objective is to make the road safer. I'm still trying to find a stretch of road without big trucks obscuring view, and drivers going 20 miles over the limit, weaving constantly. That's sort of an "area" characteristic. How have I managed to avoid tickets and crashes for so long ?
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
11,540
32,145
Seattle, WA
I am referring to their *very* conservative approach to expanding the beta (which is understandable).
That is not what you are referring to.

I asked for examples of starting the rollout and then stopping mid-way for a very long time. You didn't provide one - even though you claim that is their "approach".

What you are describing are delays, which we all know quite well.
 

ATPMSD

Member
Mar 12, 2021
432
418
Atlanta, GA
the moment you need to take over and apply brakes, AP turns off. Then, you get dinged for braking or FCW

Agree. Every time I needed to take control was either because FSD was doing something wrong, like heading for the wrong lane, or because some jackass created an unsafe situation in front of me.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,615
3,216
Have to agree. I got dinged for hard braking when I came across a mattress in the middle of the road on a turn. Of course I braked. That’s not unsafe, it’s the opposite.
Information gathering...
How far ahead of you was the mattress when you first saw it?
 

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