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Musk had enough of the Falcon Wing Doors yet?

vandacca

ReActive Member
Oct 13, 2014
3,371
2,202
Hamilton
"Forgot that the door was open when driving out of own garage. Nobody hurt. Spotted at repair shop."
Tesla Model X crashed in Lisle, IL USA
Wow, that's a very sad photo. Model-X with a broken wing.

I've only had 3 hours in my X so far (now getting PPF) but I'm going to reserve judgement until I've had the vehicle in my hands for 30 days (just like @ohmman). I want to see if I can find a good solution with snowboards inside the vehicle, otherwise, I may consider a sea-sucker roof rack with a thin cargo box so only 1 fwd will be compromised.

Surprisingly, all the fit and finish issues I noticed so far have nothing to do with the FWD. I hope I don't run into any latching issues with them, but then again, I've seen people report latching issues with the front doors too.

I'll be searching for solutions to make those fwd work for all my use-cases.
 

Sunlight

Member
May 7, 2014
329
729
South Africa
Without being unnecessarily provocative I would like to ask Ohmman a serious question!
Do you really look like that?! No, that is not the question.....
I have found the endless FWD discussions and observations very interesting and I know that Ohmman is not a happy bunny with his FWDs.
He makes plenty of valid points that would concern me as well.
However Ohmman knew that the Model X had FWDs and basically how they operated - so how have they been a disappointment - design; execution; reliability; functionality?
If they end up with software revisions so they are 'faultless' and reliable, would Ohmman then be happy with them?
Or are there too many functional/hardware issues to be resolved?
Ohmman, do you think that the FWDs could ever be made satisfactory in the future as far as you are concerned?
Indeed as someone with first hand experience, do you ever see FWDs becoming commonplace on other cars - or is this a dead-end design only with great automotive historical interest in 20 years!?
 

proven

Member
Sep 1, 2015
296
194
Raleigh, NC
My mom finds it nearly impossible to get into the back seat with the falcon wing doors. There's nothing for her to hold onto as she steps up. We put her in the front seat, and my wife gets in the back. How's that better for aging people?

My mother has a little trouble getting out of the third row due to not having anything to hold onto as well. She gets in fine. That being said, she has zero chance to get in or out of her Highlander's third row, and she had trouble with our Odyssey's third row, so I would say that for it's size, the X is doing quite well for her as it's the easiest one for her to use the third row.
 

ohmman

Plaid-ish Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,028
18,145
North Bay, CA
However Ohmman knew that the Model X had FWDs and basically how they operated - so how have they been a disappointment - design; execution; reliability; functionality?
If they end up with software revisions so they are 'faultless' and reliable, would Ohmman then be happy with them?
Or are there too many functional/hardware issues to be resolved?
Ohmman, do you think that the FWDs could ever be made satisfactory in the future as far as you are concerned?
Indeed as someone with first hand experience, do you ever see FWDs becoming commonplace on other cars - or is this a dead-end design only with great automotive historical interest in 20 years!?
I don't think you're being provocative, and I think they're good questions. I did indeed know I was getting falcon wings from the get-go. Though, I honestly had a tiny glimmer of a not-so-secret hope that for some reason they wouldn't make it into production and I'd get regular people doors. I tried to set my expectations pretty low for the doors, and I think I was successful. Unfortunately, for me they still failed to meet those lower expectations.

We were led to believe they'd open fully in a "normal sized garage". I still worried about that, and for good reason - they don't open fully. Because they don't open fully, navigating the corners of "umbrella" doors is a bit of a challenge. So I am joining the group of owners who are rebuilding parts of their garage around someone's choice in car doors. If they opened fully in my garage, it would solve a good number of complaints I have about using them at home.

If the doors didn't pop and ping and snap when they opened and closed, I'd be happier with them. If one of them didn't fall closed (even after a service center visit), I'd be happier. If they weren't so slow, I'd like them more as well. If my headliner pieces inside of the doors didn't get pushed open to reveal a big gap, I'd complain a bit less. There are so many things going wrong with my doors that it's hard to see through the noise to figure out whether I'd like them in a perfect world. I'm guessing I would.

Personally, I see no future for the doors in vehicles. They don't solve that many problems, and the ratio of problems solved to problems caused is not in their favor. So no, I don't see other manufacturers adopting them. I get that they work great for some people in their particular scenario, but when I try to generalize to the population at large, they don't seem to have a future. My opinion, and I'm wrong a lot. So take it for what it's worth.

My mother has a little trouble getting out of the third row due to not having anything to hold onto as well. She gets in fine. That being said, she has zero chance to get in or out of her Highlander's third row, and she had trouble with our Odyssey's third row, so I would say that for it's size, the X is doing quite well for her as it's the easiest one for her to use the third row.

I was talking about the second row, not the third. My mom doesn't go into the third row. I'm not a monster. ;)
 

ankitmishra

Member
Sep 1, 2015
336
22
India
I haven't even seen the car, but I believe these doors will be a great asset for Tesla. They are made from questioning status quo instead of deriving stuff from staus quo. And there is great power in originality. These are just the 1st version of these doors. They will get faster, accurate and less glitchier with time. It's unfortunate that some people are disqualifying them in their present growing state. It's fine that they don't make everyone happy, those people have cars with normal doors to look up to (not criticising those people). Model X might be the car of future, maybe the next version will have all four doors as FWD.
 
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Sunlight

Member
May 7, 2014
329
729
South Africa
Thanks Ohmman for your measured and thoughtful comments.
Let's hope that in the not too distant future your FWDs operate flawlessly (if this is possible with your set) so that you can make a revised and less frustrated analysis!
It does seem that many owners do love them and there seem to be less and less grumbles on the TMC site so that is 'progress'........
I guess we'll have to leave it a few months/years before a definitive outcome arrives.
If (IF.....) Tesla get them totally sorted and they appear on the Model Y (as an option this time?) then they can be considered a qualified success - if they end up on other manufacturers' cars, then they have been ground-breaking.
 

farzyness

Food lover. Entrepreneur. Did I say food lover?
Aug 8, 2013
674
1,493
Earth
I would like to start by saying that I am not an owner of a Model X.

However - even with the many issues and problems that have been outlined in this forum (all of which are 100% legitimate and accurate) I think there's a silver lining that may be easier for me to appreciate due to me not experiencing these difficulties.

This silver lining is the fact that Tesla is the only car maker willing to challenge today's status quo regarding many (if not all) aspects of what an automobile should be, and the endless leanings and data gathered by merely trying something like a Falcon Wing Door will pay immense dividends in the future. As many other posters have mentioned, this is v1.0 of these doors, and Tesla has shown time and again that they will diagnose, solve, implement, and learn from every single happenstance in their cars.

Worst comes to worst, the FWD will be scrapped entirely for future cars - but the many leanings that came from even trying these doors will give way to an even better product.

Truly appreciate those on these forums that have placed their very hard-earned money for the sake of technological and human advancement on a product that is both frustrating and admirable.

Cheers.
 
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AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
200
TSLA cares more about that, since EPA already reduced to 250/257 with the 90 KwH battery.

Reduced? That's been the quoted ranges with 90D/P90D since last year. If range was an issue, then....

Anyway, bottom line is people who have to have a roof rack can just buy an S

Why have it on the S? There's no roof rack because of the falcon wing doors. It's not because Tesla is trying to save us from ourselves or any other reason.

As an investor

I think the above is the big disconnect here. As an investor, you're not always seeing things how an owner would see them, and I'd argue are more likely to rose-tint it all.

Truly appreciate those on these forums that have placed their very hard-earned money for the sake of technological and human advancement on a product that is both frustrating and admirable.

I dunno about others, but our purchase wasn't all that altruistic lol. We needed an SUV, wanted to stay electric, and overall, the Model X fits our needs very well. It does indeed have shortcomings though, and I thank those that speak on them vs blindly sweeping them under the rug. I think the doors are here to stay and will likely improve with HW and SW over time.

Also... must now hit your escape room -_-
 

Oyvind.H

Member
Aug 17, 2012
373
51
Oslo, Norway
Folding seats sure. That was offered originally. But what part of the FWD's did you not understand pre reservation?
I was hoping for a roofrack solution. Several ideas/concepts for how it could ble implemented has been discussed here. Tesla/Elon even mentioned that the car would get a solution for the roof at some point before deliveries started. So it`s not that I didn`t fear that the doors would fall through, but I kept my fingers crossed until the answer was clear.

Seeing the solution live here in Oslo also helped me understand the issues this car will face during winter, which wasn`t obvious when looking at videos (i.e. snow on the rear hatch will slide directly into the car if one of the FWDs are open.)

A fold flat 2nd row (30/30/30 or 60/40) could compensate for missing roofrack. But they skipped that as well (although the 2nd row seats look good and have interresting storage capability beneath the seats. High gloss black on the back of the seats however are a major bummer for people with kids :) )

The X is for active people. Instead of a roof rack which is harder to access on a higher vehicle like the X, an accessory hitch is available. One can attach skis, snowboards, or bicycles to it. There's also a towing hitch option you can attach anything to as long as it is within the weight limit, including a boat or aerodynamic trailer. Of course one loses lots of range pulling a trailer!

With the 6 seater, you can put your skis in a bag and fit them right inside the X.

No, the Model X is made for soccermoms hauling lots of kids every day in sunny California. Beautiful and cool car! But very impractical compared to other SUVs.

Have you seen the enormous accessories solution Tesla made? Sticking out far behind the car. The roofrack has worked very well on other SUV`s for a long time. Making people able to bring skis, snowoards, kayaks, building materials, extra luggace etc. without having a long extension or a trailer behind the car.

To me the only solution is the 7 seater. The 6 seater isn`t suitable for my family. Much better to have 5 seats, a large storage area in the back and a solid wall (back of the 2nd row seats) between luggage and people. Don`t want luggage lying around inside the cabin.
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
200
High gloss black on the back of the seats however are a major bummer for people with kids :) )

Just wanted to address this real quick. We also thought this was going to be a problem, but aside from a scratch that was there at delivery on our first X, haven't had any issues with them. Everything wipes off, and we ended up passing on getting XPEL on them.

I still feel matte should have at least been an option though.
 
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Oyvind.H

Member
Aug 17, 2012
373
51
Oslo, Norway
Just wanted to address this real quick. We also thought this was going to be a problem, but aside from a scratch that was there at delivery on our first X, haven't had any issues with them. Everything wipes off, and we ended up passing on getting XPEL on them.

I still feel matte should have at least been an option though.

Good to know! Still hoping that the X will fit my needs in a couple of years, and that my assumptions about design choices unsuitable for winter are totally wrong :)
 

aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,430
2,509
Northern California
Seeing the solution live here in Oslo also helped me understand the issues this car will face during winter, which wasn`t obvious when looking at videos (i.e. snow on the rear hatch will slide directly into the car if one of the FWDs are open.)

Or you could open the hatch first.
I was hoping for a roofrack solution. Several ideas/concepts for how it could ble implemented has been discussed here.
While there is no official version available I would not give up hope yet. Why not look at one of the suction cup racks? You will have to manually control which door you open so it's not without risk.
 

Noneduck

Member
Oct 1, 2015
88
164
Albuquerque NM
No, the Model X is made for soccermoms hauling lots of kids every day in sunny California. Beautiful and cool car! But very impractical compared to other SUVs.

Have you seen the enormous accessories solution Tesla made? Sticking out far behind the car. The roofrack has worked very well on other SUV`s for a long time. Making people able to bring skis, snowoards, kayaks, building materials, extra luggace etc. without having a long extension or a trailer behind the car.

I have lots of experience with trailer hitch racks on our SUV. They are far superior to roof racks, speaking as one who has driven his bike-topped car into a parking garage, with disastrous consequences.

As for the model S, I am able to put my bike and my skis inside with no problem
 

zambono

Active Member
Mar 1, 2016
1,160
607
DC
Have any X owners thought about the value of their X after the warranty is over? Who would want to risk purchasing a vehicle with the issues it has had and who knows what new issues it will have with age. They won't be cheap to repair due to all the automation.
 

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