Musk said all cars would get HW 3.0, according to InsideEVs Article

[Tam]

...mistake...

The quotes:

“At first, it seems improbable. How could it be that Tesla, who has never designed a chip before, would design the best chip in the world? But that is objectively what has occurred. Not best by a small margin: best by a huge margin. It’s in the cars right now. All Teslas being produced right now have this computer. We switched over from the Nvidia solution for S and X about a month ago and switched over the Model 3 about ten days ago. All cars being produced have all the hardware necessary, compute and otherwise, for full self-driving.”

“I’ll say that again: all Tesla cars being produced right now have everything necessary for full self-driving. All you need to do is improve the software.”

This is consistent with my previous deadline surrounding March/April 2019 as the talk happened in 4/22/2019.

The only legal matter that needs to be resolved is: Current paid FSD with HW3.0 can do Traffic Light and Stop Sign Controls but those who paid for FSD with HW2 and HW2.5 cannot.

Tesla has already addressed that by sending e-mails to those who paid FSD owners to upgrade for free.

Those who did not pay for FSD and cannot get Traffic Light and Stop Sign Controls and no way to get it because of their Hardware limitation of 2.0 or 2.5 then Tesla has no obligation to upgrade theirs for free.

 

[camalaio]

There are vehicles built after the date Elon said all built vehicles should have HW3. That is true. A 2018 build without FSD will never be upgraded for example, but you'd expect a late 2019 vehicle to have it for sure. OP is correct that this isn't always the case. Elon lied, mislead, misspoke, whatever - point is, one thing was said and another thing was delivered to some people. I don't know what should be done about that if you didn't pay for FSD, since the computer doesn't really make a difference.

To this day, I don't think basic AP functionality (i.e. AutoSteer, Cruise Control) is behaving any differently on HW2.5 vs. HW3. It's said that they essentially use the same code and the true capability of HW3 isn't being used currently. This makes sense, they're actively supporting both. In fact, I don't think Tesla has ever claimed that HW3 works any better, just allows them to do more in the future.

As for Canadian Winters? Teslas are made in California and it shows. The car has numerous design flaws for Winter, not limited to just AP functions. I am firmly in the camp of never paying CAD$9200 for FSD, but I don't think anyone expected that it was going to work in the Winter. That is one of my main points for not buying it when people ask - even if it achieves everything it says and I can farm it out for robotaxi purposes and all the government regulations are in place before the car is scrapped, it can only do that 6 months out of the year.

You were not swindled because you didn't buy FSD. You don't expect FSD to work in the snow, because you don't have FSD. You paid $0 for FSD to work anywhere, let alone snow. $0. No swindle.

 

[moorej999]

Are you saying Musk did not say all cars will have FSD hardware? Sure sounds like he did say that "we switched over".

 

[Tam]

Would like the better computer and get the benefits of more responsive Autopilot

There have been subjective reports that HW3.0 can do better Autopilot than HW2.0 and 2.5.

Even if that is true Tesla is not obligated to replace your hardware for free until NHTSA can prove that there's a safety problem.

It is very hard to prove that there is a safety problem when what you bought is SAE Level 2 that shifts the responsibility of driving to the driver, not Autopilot. Not even in case of a clear fatality.

Lastly, there has been no objective tests proving that HW3.0 can do better Autopilot than HW2.0 and 2.5.

 

[moorej999]

There are vehicles built after the date Elon said all built vehicles should have HW3. That is true. A 2018 build without FSD will never be upgraded for example, but you'd expect a late 2019 vehicle to have it for sure. OP is correct that this isn't always the case. Elon lied, mislead, misspoke, whatever - point is, one thing was said and another thing was delivered to some people. I don't know what should be done about that if you didn't pay for FSD, since the computer doesn't really make a difference.

To this day, I don't think basic AP functionality (i.e. AutoSteer, Cruise Control) is behaving any differently on HW2.5 vs. HW3. It's said that they essentially use the same code and the true capability of HW3 isn't being used currently. This makes sense, they're actively supporting both. In fact, I don't think Tesla has ever claimed that HW3 works any better, just allows them to do more in the future.

As for Canadian Winters? Teslas are made in California and it shows. The car has numerous design flaws for Winter, not limited to just AP functions. I am firmly in the camp of never paying CAD$9200 for FSD, but I don't think anyone expected that it was going to work in the Winter. That is one of my main points for not buying it when people ask - even if it achieves everything it says and I can farm it out for robotaxi purposes and all the government regulations are in place before the car is scrapped, it can only do that 6 months out of the year.

You were not swindled because you didn't buy FSD. You don't expect FSD to work in the snow, because you don't have FSD. You paid $0 for FSD to work anywhere, let alone snow. $0. No swindle.

That is not what Musk said if you watch the video. I purchased my vehicle based on what he said. So yes, I feel swindled!

Here's Elon Musk Saying All Tesla Cars Would Get HW 3.0

 

[Tam]

Are you saying Musk did not say all cars will have FSD hardware? Sure sounds like he did say that "we switched over".

" We switched over from the Nvidia solution for S and X about a month ago and switched over the Model 3 about ten days ago."

It's very clear: There is a deadline for the switch. Those who didn't make the deadline would not be switched.

If you met the deadline, then you can legally remediate the problem:

Did you pay for FSD? Yes, then Tesla would upgrade you for no additional cost.

No, then Tesla would not upgrade you for free because your Autopilot still works even if you might claim that it's not as good but it still fulfills the legal definition of Autopilot.

 

[ry-ballz]

That is not what Musk said if you watch the video. I purchased my vehicle based on what he said. So yes, I feel swindled!

Here's Elon Musk Saying All Tesla Cars Would Get HW 3.0

Can you show me your contract with Tesla that says you have or will get HW3.0 for free? I'll take your case pro-bono.

 

[vickh]

I was told both by service and sales reps that I had 3.0 for my 5/19 build prior to taking a 6/30 SR delivery (latest possible for fed credit) Display says 2.5

 

[diamond.g]

If your window sticker says Full Self Drive computer, you may be able to do the same thing folks in China did and claim false advertising. IIRC that was how they got Tesla to put the computer in vehicles that did not buy FSD.

Good luck.

 

[Tom K]

Is the upgrade available at a cost? 3.0 without FSD? I would like the additional capability for the display and auto steer and tacc

 

[sduck]

This is just a basic misunderstanding by the OP. EM never says all cars will be upgraded for free.

 

[vickh]

Would like the better computer and get the benefits of more responsive Autopilot

If that's true I wonder if we can get HW3.0 as a perk for buying $2k AP?

 

[vickh]

Here's an old thread about the cutoff HW2.5 even after April 12th build date

 

[moorej999]

There have been subjective reports that HW3.0 can do better Autopilot than HW2.0 and 2.5.

Even if that is true Tesla is not obligated to replace your hardware for free until NHTSA can prove that there's a safety problem.

It is very hard to prove that there is a safety problem when what you bought is SAE Level 2 that shifts the responsibility of driving to the driver, not Autopilot. Not even in case of a clear fatality.

Lastly, there has been no objective tests proving that HW3.0 can do better Autopilot than HW2.0 and 2.5.

" We switched over from the Nvidia solution for S and X about a month ago and switched over the Model 3 about ten days ago."

It's very clear: There is a deadline for the switch. Those who didn't make the deadline would not be switched.

If you met the deadline, then you can legally remediate the problem:

Did you pay for FSD? Yes, then Tesla would upgrade you for no additional cost.

No, then Tesla would not upgrade you for free because your Autopilot still works even if you might claim that it's not as good but it still fulfills the legal definition of Autopilot.

Buy still not what he said.

 

[moorej999]

Buy still not what he said.

My car was made on June 8, 2019.

 

[moorej999]

My car was made on June 8, 2019.

Look what happened in China with 2.5 HW

 

[Tam]

My car was made on June 8, 2019.

Legally, you are entitled to what you paid according to your sales receipt that clearly spelled out Autopilot and its price.

You can introduce additional evidence that the sales receipt is incomplete due to the video that stated that the HW3 installed "RIGHT NOW" and your date is very qualified for that cut-off date.

Your legal option is very slim because you paid for Autopilot and you got Autopilot even though you may not be happy with its performance.

Good luck to you!

 

[camalaio]

It's obvious you feel strongly about this. Without legal action though, no one here can help you with anything. Especially if you ask people to keep watching a 4 hour video. I don't have time for that and I'm currently unemployed!

You point to the China case, which is valid. You already have the background on the situation. To my knowledge, no one has made a big legal stink about this in the US. You could be the first to do so, or rally together people to do so. However, I would skip notions of Winter behaviour and such since that's not what you're after.

 

[The_Observer]

Look what happened in China with 2.5 HW

I believe Elon said they will upgrade them to HW 3.0 once they fix their supply problems.

 

[Big Dog]

So why can't I get my 2.5 hardware upgraded for free for my model 3, which was made in June 2019? I bought it and assumed I would get latest based on this remark. I hear Autopilot works much better with HW 3, and I have to live with this old hardware or pay 10k for FSD! Not sure how FSD will ever handle Canadian winters! I feel swindled!

Please provide a technical source which shows that AP works better with a new computer.....