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fajitamondays
Member
See:.
HW 3.0 Cars will have better enhanced Autopilot : teslamotors
"Andrej Kapathy mentioned that the v9 neural net will be much more accurate at perception with 3.0 compute than current hardware."
I assume this is the same Andrej Karpathy, who is the director of artificial intelligence and Autopilot Vision at Tesla.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It's commonly known knowledge that you will get HW 3.0 after March/April 2019 deadline.
However, it is not on your sales receipt, so it is not a guarantee.
It is more economical for Tesla to uniformly install HW3 after that deadline, but as you see, there might be exceptions.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
There is no denial that the latest hardware is more powerful than the last one.
That is also true with Cell Phone. However, if you only sign up for voice, it's very little help to get a cell phone with lots of memory because the voice function doesn't take up that much.
Same with Autopilot. Like cell phone voice, it doesn't take that much power because it has only 2 functions:
1) TACC
2) Autosteer
It doesn't even need to Auto Lane Change because that's $7,000 more!
So, just like cell phone, sure HW3 has more power than HW2 & 2.5, but there's still lots of power for HW2 & HW2.5 just to do 2 functions.
So when you buy a cell phone and the receipt says "voice" and you later found out others buy the same phone but they can text and use internet and you can't!
You can sue them for not including the higher power of internet usage capability but what counts is your receipt that has no mention of the higher power functions.
NewI have three kids with two under 3 years old and if there is even a possibility that HW 3 is more accurate, then I wanted it. I need to make sure I am around for my kids and my wife and as safe/healthy as possible. I'm not a rich man and can't afford the 10K for FSD. When I ordered the car, I had seen this video from Musk and I purposely paid 2k extra for white, with the thought that I would get a more recent build and with the upgraded hardware. Was very disappointed when I found out I did not get the latest computer and it is not as accurate at perception according to the above post mentioned. The main reasons I ordered this car was for safety, economics (I drive high milage) and for the environment aspects. I trusted what I heard.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Trust should be memorialized in a legal document.
Lots of promises from salespeople including Elon but if those are not on the sales receipt then they are not guaranteed.
Hindsight, at the delivery, I should get the readout and documentation of what the hardware is if that is important to me.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Autopilot is SAE Level 2 which means it is not safe enough without an attentive driver.
When the Autopilot is safe enough, it won't be classified as Level 2 anymore. It will be Level 3 and it won't be called Autopilot either. That's the start of FSD.
Starting from Level 3, the job of monitoring the environment is now shifted from the driver to the machine, although at this lowest level of FSD, human still needs to be there in case the machine can't do it.
So if your goal is safety, you should pay for Level 3 or more and not Level 2.
No matter how good Level 2 Autopilot is: Its maximum class is it is unsafe without an attentive driver.
It's the same concept as cell phone voice only vs. smartphone with the internet. The maximum and best you'd get is voice and without paying for more, you can never browse the internet.
That means it doesn't matter it's HW2, HW3, HW5, HW10, HW99... As the machine gets better and more powerful, but if you only pay for Autopilot, then Level 2 is all that you get.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I do feel bad for you but that how the legal world works.
Salespeople get away with promises and I would classify Elon Musk as another Salesperson too.
C141medic
Active Member
If you PAID for FSD on a car that had HW2.5 then, YES you get the FSD computer aka HW3 as a FREE upgrade and the associated software features that go along with the hardware to enable FSD. If a vehicle that has HW3 or HW2.5 and you don’t PAY for the FSD software option then why would they give it away? Even if they decided to upgrade everyone to HW3, you would still have to purchase the FSD software to enable FSD features. I don’t get where the OP is going with this thread?
C141medic
Active Member
Not sure if this was speculation or if some hacker verified it, but I read a while back that for those people with HW3 (mine was a retrofit), AP is basically running in emulation. The codebase is incompatible with the new computer, but the new computer is powerful enough to emulate HW2.5 and run the AP code written for 2.5.
An extreme analogy: you buy the best gaming PC on the market and then run an NES emulator to play the original Metroid. It's not going to run any better than it did in 1986.
An extreme analogy: you buy the best gaming PC on the market and then run an NES emulator to play the original Metroid. It's not going to run any better than it did in 1986.
Ludalicious
Active Member
Still dont understand why people are calling 3.0 the FSD computer. I have yet to see any proof 3.0 is any better than 2.5 and have zero proof 3.0 is capable for of FSD.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It's not a proven function. It's called to differentiate different hardware for discussion.
Current FSD sold to consumers and what consumers using FSD is still classified as Level 2 (the machine is not good enough to be a primary monitor).
Once FSD is good enough to become Level 3 (The very start of shifting the primary monitoring job from driver to machine but it still needs a driver when it can't compute), then Tesla has to file a mandatory California Annual Disengagement.
But Tesla does file a mandatory Annual Disengagement Report (either in a letter or spreadsheet with numbers)!!!
Those Tesla FSD cars that are not sold to consumers but are used as Video Demo Cars are classified as Level 3 or 4 and that's why you do see Tesla does file an Annual Disengagement. When it does a video demo, it would give all the statistics. For years that Tesla doesn't do a video memo, it sends out a letter that it did not use FSD in public roads.
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