Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
May 19, 2017
1,311
564
During Wednesday’s Q1 earnings call, Tesla CEO Elon musk dropped a few new details on the company’s factory plans. After China recently said it will allow full foreign ownership of auto factories, Musk announced on the call that Tesla’s next Gigafactory will be built in China. In fact, Musk offered thanks to the Chinese government for...
[WPURI="https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/05/03/musk-says-china-factory-announcement-coming-soon/"]READ FULL ARTICLE[/WPURI]
 

Unpilot

Sell order in at $5999.99
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2017
5,147
41,387
A Coast
I think the factory in china makes a ton of sense for cars destined for the Chinese market.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,558
19,419
San Diego, CA
Honestly, I am 100% against Tesla establishing a factory in China.

The Chinese have shown that they have no honor with regards to intellectual property rights. They will take what they want (how to build great EVs) and Tesla will get a relatively short-lived shot in the arm financially.
 

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,881
1,901
PA
Might as well flush the IP down the toilet. Once these factories are established, China will declare that environmental concerns force them to take ownership for the
good of the people. Tesla gets a big middle finger and crumby compensation. Don't do it!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: bkp_duke

larmor

Active Member
Oct 27, 2014
2,275
6,118
Westlake, TX
The middle class of China dwarfs the size of many countries. It is a market that cannot be missed.

I'm not familiar with IP issues with China but there are some very sharp people who I'm sure have their own innovations, etc.
 

jelloslug

Active Member
Jul 21, 2015
4,728
6,405
Greenville, SC
Where the cars are sold doesn't matter, they would be handing over everything IP to the Chinese. They could simply take the factory
away and Tesla couldn't do a damn thing about it.

After that, Teslo cars would hit the streets.
The chances of that happening are slim considering the new rules that China is implementing for automakers. On top of that, just knowing how to assemble the car does not mean that they know how to build the car.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
702
Canada
The chances of that happening are slim considering the new rules that China is implementing for automakers. On top of that, just knowing how to assemble the car does not mean that they know how to build the car.

They will get all the IP info, if they don't already have it now.
 

jelloslug

Active Member
Jul 21, 2015
4,728
6,405
Greenville, SC
They will get all the IP info, if they don't already have it now.
Toyota voluntarily let GM in their factories, trained them in the Toyota Way, ran a factory side by side for years and years and GM still could not reproduce the methods that Toyota uses. Just knowing the information is not nearly enough. On top of that, the plant will be an assembly plant. The most you could hope to gain from it would be how the final car is assembled. Most of the actual parts will come in from elsewhere.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
702
Canada
Toyota voluntarily let GM in their factories, trained them in the Toyota Way, ran a factory side by side for years and years and GM still could not reproduce the methods that Toyota uses. Just knowing the information is not nearly enough. On top of that, the plant will be an assembly plant. The most you could hope to gain from it would be how the final car is assembled. Most of the actual parts will come in from elsewhere.

Elsewhere in China.
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
10,872
8,572
Maine
It'll make it easier for China to steal the IP, but it won't be a JV, so they won't have the right to it.

It wouldn't affect me, since I'd want a Model 3 rather than a Model Y, but I wouldn't ever buy a car built in China (or from a Chinese-owned company), due to having built industry with protectionism. (Same for India, including Tata's Jaguar-Landrover.).

I don't blame Tesla for manufacturing there. Not only would it help them sell a bunch of BEVs in China, but potentially they'd have a bunch of Chinese credits to sell to other companies.
 

adaptabl

Banned
Mar 13, 2018
776
702
Canada
Toyota voluntarily let GM in their factories, trained them in the Toyota Way, ran a factory side by side for years and years and GM still could not reproduce the methods that Toyota uses. Just knowing the information is not nearly enough. On top of that, the plant will be an assembly plant. The most you could hope to gain from it would be how the final car is assembled. Most of the actual parts will come in from elsewhere.

From the reports of chaos in the Tesla plant. Letting China duplicate it would be good for all the other automakers.
 

jelloslug

Active Member
Jul 21, 2015
4,728
6,405
Greenville, SC
From the reports of chaos in the Tesla plant. Letting China duplicate it would be good for all the other automakers.
Have you ever been in a car factory? They are all chaos. Every factory has heaps of bad cars that have to be reworked before they can be sold, malfunctioning robots, dysfunctional maintenance that lets production lines go down, and the general issue that Tesla is in the spotlight for right now.
 

jelloslug

Active Member
Jul 21, 2015
4,728
6,405
Greenville, SC
And lets not ignore the 800 lb gorilla in the room: The Munro tear down of the Model 3 that is available to anyone that will fork over the cash. When they tore down the BMW i3, every single major Chinese car company bought the complete report for every system. You better believe that every single one of them has already placed their order for the Model 3 reports.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Brando

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,558
19,419
San Diego, CA
too late - IP is so last century
All Our Patent Are Belong To You

When I mention IP, I don't just refer to patents, but things like construction process, etc. That's not necessarily in a patent, and is still why goods manufactured in the USA are usually much better. China wants to "partner" with our companies for that know how. I'm sure the manufacturing process for the batteries coming out of GF1 is very complicated. Hence why they want to see that in action.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,558
19,419
San Diego, CA
@RobStark and @Blu Angel - if you want to disagree with my reasoning, have the balls to put forth an argument and let's all have a discussion about it.

My post above was a statement of fact (the Chinese STEAL IP, in EVERY industry that they enter), not my personal opinion.
 

Brando

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
2,997
2,243
Bainbridge Island, WA
@RobStark and @Blu Angel - if you want to disagree with my reasoning, have the balls to put forth an argument and let's all have a discussion about it.

My post above was a statement of fact (the Chinese STEAL IP, in EVERY industry that they enter), not my personal opinion.
Welcome to Wall St. and current free trade/globalization and capitalism. You are exactly right. No argument.

BUT Elon's thinking, and I completely agree, it isn't about protecting IP and patents. It IS about faster innovation than your competitors.

(and as a side note, with near 8 billion people - 100,000,000 vehicles/year it will need a minimum of 10 very large manufacturers to meet demand - Tesla can easily make a place for itself - no secrets needed, just continued great execution, continuous improvements.)
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC