Musk Says Model 3 Brakes Need Work, Firmware Update Coming in a ‘Few Days’

Responding to Consumer Reports’ criticism of the Model 3’s braking ability, Tesla CEO Elon Musk tweeted Monday that the company will “make sure all Model 3’s having amazing braking ability at no expense to customers.”

Consumer Reports said the Model 3’s stopping distance of 152 feet from 60 mph was far worse than any contemporary car they have tested. Musk called their results “strange” and inconsistent with other reviews. He suggested that performance may vary by vehicle and Consumer Reports may have had their hands on a dud.

https://twitter.com/x/status/998739763543736320

Musk later tweeted that braking tweaks can be made through a firmware update, which Tesla intends to ship in a few days. He said the company is dedicated to making the Model 3’s braking better than any comparable car.

Consumer Reports also said the Model 3’s stiff ride, unsupportive rear seat and excessive wind noise at highway speeds hurt its road-test score. Musk said the magazine was testing an early production car and those issues have since been addressed for cars coming off the assembly line today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/998778081492926465

Tesla has acknowledged that the Model 3’s braking needs improvement. The good news is that the company can seemingly avoid an expensive recall and make those performance improvements via a software update.

 

[DefPlug]

What firmware do you have on your Model 3?

2018.16

 

[dhanson865]

Elon Musk on Twitter

firmware fix for upgraded brake performance on standard Model 3 started rolling out yesterday. Should improve braking distance by ~20 ft for repeated heavy braking events.

Presumably 2018.18.13 is the version that has the fix as it was released yesterday.

 

[MP3Mike]

I repeated the CR 10 stop 60-0 test in my own model 3 VIn 12xxx on the same all-season 18" tires and had a best 60-0 of 122 feet and one outlyer at 136 feet but the average was 128 feet. A far cry from 150'. What are they doing differently?

@DefPlug Any chance of you doing the tests again once you get 2018.18.13? (Since that appears to be the one that should fix the inconsistencies that CR reported, and Elon says that it will shorten the stop by ~20 feet.)

 

[Anner J. Bonilla]

Found a report on Twitter about the fix causing grinding/clunking noise when decelerating at 12mph.
Taylor Marks on Twitter

 

[scottf200]

Found a report on Twitter about the fix causing grinding/clunking noise when decelerating at 12mph.
Taylor Marks on Twitter

Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!
You can search Twitter using the search box below or return to the homepage.

 

[scottf200]

Completely surprised there have been documented (official or unofficial) of how 2018.18.13 has improved the braking besides Elon's tweet.

 

[RTPGiants]

My DS today indicated that 2018.18.13 has the brake fix. He mentioned that it may have been related to the braking system's interpretation of the brake fluid temperature. Basically he said he believed it was limiting braking pressure to prevent fluid heat, but it was too aggressive in doing so. Whether this is speculation or inside knowledge I have no idea, but it does seem like the type of thing that could be software tuned.

 

[bhzmark]

All it takes is for people to complain to NHTSA about the issue and that creates the trigger for the law. I

Huh? Pls cite, with specificity, what law you think is triggered and what law you think does the triggering based on a complaint to the nhtsa

 

[dhanson865]

I am not aware of any law stating that a 60-0 stop has to perform to a specific maximum distance.

Model 3 makes it in under the maximum allowed even in it's unfixed state but FYI the law is found under

Title 49 › Subtitle B › Chapter V › Part 571 › Subpart B › Section 571.105 has table II that states the maximum stopping distance. There are various bits of the law before and after the table that apply on how you use the table, and sections of the law way before and way after that deal with rules for notification for recalls, failure to do so, and such.

If the worst case distance alone were the only concern 194 ft or less would be good enough.

But I'd still say the quote below is correct even though I can't site the law that specifically covers that concept.

While there is no standard (that I know of) for 60-0 braking distance, the same amount of pressure should stop you in the same distance under the same test conditions. You shouldn't have to guess how much stopping distance you will need because the distance is inconsistent. Further when you are do far off from other similar vehicles you create a potential legal liability in the event that an accident occurs and the driver claims it was due to faulty brakes failing to stop the vehicle within a reasonable distance as demonstrable in other similar class vehicles and the manufacturer knew it was due to a defect and failed to correct it. In all likelihood the reasonable standard would be applied.

When is a recall necessary?

• When a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment (including tires) does not comply with a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard.
• When there is a safety-related defect in the vehicle or equipment.

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards set minimum performance requirements for those parts of the vehicle that most affect its safe operation (brakes, tires, lighting) or that protect drivers and passengers from death or serious injury in the event of a crash (air bags, safety belts, child restraints, energy absorbing steering columns, motorcycle helmets). These Federal Standards are applicable to all vehicles and vehicle-related equipment manufactured or imported for sale in the United States (including U.S. territories) and certified for use on public roads and highways.

What Is a safety-related defect?
The United States Code for Motor Vehicle Safety (Title 49, Chapter 301) defines motor vehicle safety as “the performance of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment in a way that protects the public against unreasonable risk of accidents occurring because of the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against unreasonable risk of death or injury in an accident, and includes nonoperational safety of a motor vehicle.” A defect includes “any defect in performance, construction, a component, or material of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle equipment.” Generally, a safety defect is defined as a problem that exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment that:

• poses an risk to motor vehicle safety, and
• may exist in a group of vehicles of the same design or manufacture, or items of equipment of the same type and manufacture.

I'm no lawyer but I'd say brakes are a safety item per the quotes above.

Since 2018.18.13 presumably fixes the issue I'd suppose any responsibility for a recall notice would be easily performed as a mere formality. Something like:

"boiler plate opening, boiler plate middle, please allow your car to update to 2018.18.13 as soon as possible. If you can not apply this update contact your service center immediately. Boiler plate closing."

 

[scottf200]

Model 3 makes it in under the maximum allowed even in it's unfixed state but FYI the law is found under

Title 49 › Subtitle B › Chapter V › Part 571 › Subpart B › Section 571.105 has table II that states the maximum stopping distance. There are various bits of the law before and after the table that apply on how you use the table, and sections of the law way before and way after that deal with rules for notification for recalls, failure to do so, and such.

If the worst case distance alone were the only concern 194 ft or less would be good enough.

Title 49 › Subtitle B › Chapter V › Part 571 › Subpart B › Section 571.105 has table II
Link: 49 CFR 571.105 - Standard No. 105; Hydraulic and electric brake systems.

 

[dhanson865]

Title 49 › Subtitle B › Chapter V › Part 571 › Subpart B › Section 571.105 has table II
Link: 49 CFR 571.105 - Standard No. 105; Hydraulic and electric brake systems.

That is not Table II, Table II is much further down and has 11 rows and 16 columns

I didn't post it originally because the wall of text above and below it is required to know how it is applied. Just like doing your taxes, looking at a table without applying the rules and steps that tell you how to use the table doesn't mean you did it right by the law.

this is table II

 

[scottf200]

That is not Table II, Table II is much further down and has 11 rows and 16 columns

I didn't post it originally because the wall of text above and below it is required to know how it is applied. Just like doing your taxes, looking at a table without applying the rules and steps that tell you how to use the table doesn't mean you did it right by the law.
this is table II

Well WHATEVER column you use 194 is the smallest distance at 60-0 MPH!

 

[dhanson865]

Well WHATEVER column you use 194 is the smallest distance at 60-0 MPH!

Great, now go read all of Title 49 website and be darn sure you know what the table means. How are the tests done? How does the number apply to anything?

For example the entirety of S7.7.1 is just pointing to S5.2.1 and S5.2.3. in the form of

S7.7.1 Test procedure for requirements of S5.2.1 and S5.2.3.

There are other tables and other descriptions and it's very recursive. If you don't know it all picking the face value of one small part may or may not be correct.

 

[bhzmark]

be darn sure you know what the table means.

Indeed.

 

[DR61]

My DS today indicated that 2018.18.13 has the brake fix. He mentioned that it may have been related to the braking system's interpretation of the brake fluid temperature.

That is really interesting; I wasn't aware that Teslas have sensors to measure brake fluid temperature. Impressive if correct.

 

[azred]

I understand that updates are rolled out in batches but am surprised something as critical as emergency braking improvements wouldn’t be rolled out to all cars by now. I haven’t received it but obviously Consumer Reports’ car has.

 

[scottf200]

I understand that updates are rolled out in batches but am surprised something as critical as emergency braking improvements wouldn’t be rolled out to all cars by now. I haven’t received it but obviously Consumer Reports’ car has.

A pretty large percentage for the cars that TesliFI tracks. In some case, owners may be on vacation or purposefully delay putting on new firmware until it has been out for a month or more.

 

[azred]

A pretty large percentage for the cars that TesliFI tracks. In some case, owners may be on vacation or purposefully delay putting on new firmware until it has been out for a month or more.

I guess I'm just one of the last. I have strong wifi at home so never have problems receiving updates.

 

[scottf200]

I guess I'm just one of the last. I have strong wifi at home so never have problems receiving updates.

You could get it easily by calling your service center and asking for this latest firmware that enhances the safety of the car. If they deny you just ask them for that in writing . It is some work for them as I think they have to create service tickets. I did this when I didn't get updates for over two months. I thought I was pretty patient.