Mustang Mach E is a Gamechanger - My Opinion

[MARKM3]

I want to first preface this by explaining my ownership experience with my Model 3, my first EV, and share some of my thoughts since having the car for a year and a half. I think everyone on the forums can share in my opinion on the car and overall outlook. I absolutely love my model 3, and it has been one of the best cars I've ever owned and driven. However, there are several variables about owning a model 3 that have started to change my opinion about Tesla and the future outlook. Tesla is not really known for the car quality they build, but moreover a technology company and I'm seeing that part of the company become less valuable the longer I own the car. Let me explain:

1) Autopilot is awesome, but I find myself only using it roughly 10% of the time I drive. The nag every 10-15 seconds, and the fact that on non highway roads you're limited to the speed limit or less - have me just driving the car - and it is a blast to drive. On long road trips, using autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip. Overall, the value of autopilot to me isn't really that great. The model 3 is a long ways from autonomy, at least 5 years away in my opinion from FSD.

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers. The car build quality is not to par to other manufactures, but that is OK. I knew that going into it. Tesla is more of a technology company than a car company.

3) Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year, but I knew that going into ownership. It is annoying when it is over minor squeaks and rattles, but having a service center close by would be nice. Tesla service is not that great either, and the service center is always bumping full. They don't even do state inspections.

4) The SC network is very nice, but it has become less and less important to me now that I have driven an EV for a year. With most destinations I go to not having a SC, I find myself having to find wall outlets and third party charging networks to make traveling in the model 3 viable. In addition to having a home charger and a work charger, the SC network just doesn't add any value to me anymore. I had supercharging fever with my first EV, but since I own one now the value of that has dropped dramatically.

So where does the Mustang Mach E come into all of this? Well since the release of the Mach E three months ago, Ford has really garnered my attention with their EV offering. I was always under the impression that Tesla is 7-10 year ahead of all legacy automakers in the EV space, but wow was I wrong. Ford's first attempt at an EV is not only amazing, but it is downright genius and is a serious contender to those looking at purchasing a model Y. I have never owned a Ford in my life - but the Mustang Mach E checks all the boxes (range, performance, tech, design, service, etc.) and it has me seriously considering Ford's Mustang Mach E in a few years when it is time for an upgrade.


The Mustang Mach E with 300 miles will cost $45,000 MSRP after the tax credit. A model y similarly equipped will cost $53,000. The technology and design of the Mach E is almost to par with a Model Y, so I have to give credit where credit is due. Props Ford for an outstanding first full EV!

 

[smatthew]

1) I don't think you know how to use Autopilot. If you are getting nags every 10-15 seconds, you're not keeping your hand on the wheel. Autopilot is a Advanced Driver Assistance System. You are still in charge and responsible. Plus, Autopilot isn't limit to speed limit. On non divided non restricted roads, it's limited to speed limit + 5mph
4) The Mach E's charging network is much smaller than the Tesla's.....

 

[Lifeinabox]

2 and 3 are TBD. I don’t think Ford’s are known to be immune from rattles and build quality issues. And you seriously think the average Ford dealership is prepared to service the Mach E?!

 

[What The Frunk]

This was posted previously from a user with a different name. His posts had repeatedly been deleted by mods for good reason.

 

[bareyb]

Tesla's have the cool factor though and I personally think the Model S, while getting a little long in the tooth is still one of the best looking cars on the road. The new Electric Mustang isn't actually a Mustang and it doesn't look like a Mustang... It looks more like a crossover vehicle. I think they should've just gone with an electric Mustang and kept the iconic styling.

 

[camalaio]

No sense being salty about other offerings, but we are on a Tesla forum after all.

As the years go on, CCS stations get even more attractive. I can get around my province far better (and further) on CCS/CHAdeMO than Superchargers.

I also don't use AutoPilot much, which is another discussion entirely.

Ford will almost certainly do better in the fit and finish and rattles, simply because they've been doing better at this for longer. Tesla still struggles with the Model 3, which is a valid criticism.

I welcome attractive competition. It may not be better in every way, but that's the nice thing about personal preferences and having options. You pick the one that works best for you at the time.

 

[ewoodrick]

1) Ford does the exact same thing.
3) Not all dealers will know how to support the Mustang
4) Wait until you have to travel. non-Tesla DC Fast chargers just barely exist along the Interstates. They are often installed as just one or two and they are often inoperative.

Not sure why you like the Mustang so much, there are a number of other options that actually exist.

 

[1965Falcon]

To get comparable features you'd need to get the premium Mach E with the AWD extended range. After the tax credit you are at $50,800, not sure how you got to $45,000. The range is 270 miles, not 300 miles.

I've always been a Ford guy, it has my attention... but I wouldn't say it's going to be able to compete with the model Y on features, charging network, etc. I suspect build quality will be good though. I think it will be very hard to get one for a couple years since production will be very limited for a while.

 

[Tam]

...The nag every 10-15 seconds...autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip...

That's the same feeling when I first drove my brand new Autopilot home from delivery but that's because I was using it wrong!

Since then for more than 3 years, it's very relaxing to use Autopilot with hardly any nags at all.

I don't need to visually look at the instrument cluster to see when the nag message comes on.

All I need is to obtain torque feedback from the steering wheel so I can monitor its behavior at all times and I can also predict when it's about to steer the wrong way so I could seamlessly correct it.

Just hook your hand on the steering wheel and you can feel how it steers without staring at the instrument clusters.

I use Autopilot almost all the time, even in the city, even while waiting at a red light and waiting behind a car in front for left turn. Instead of watching for when the car in front do the left turn, I just relax and let the Autopilot to start to move with the lead car and then I take over for the left turn. Extremely relaxing!

 

[MARKM3]

To get comparable features you'd need to get the premium Mach E with the AWD extended range. After the tax credit you are at $50,800, not sure how you got to $45,000. The range is 270 miles, not 300 miles.

I've always been a Ford guy, it has my attention... but I wouldn't say it's going to be able to compete with the model Y on features, charging network, etc. I suspect build quality will be good though. I think it will be very hard to get one for a couple years since production will be very limited for a while.

You don't have a choice with Tesla, you have to go AWD. At least you get the option with the Ford, and it is about $9,000 cheaper.

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers. They are growing rapidly and with all automakers using them I imagine their coverage will outreach Tesla enormously when it is all said and done.

 

[OCR1]

The more competition the better for all of us. I hope Ford’s EV is a huge success, and other automakers follow with strong offerings as well. It will only make Tesla a better company and provide more choices for us as consumers.

Ford does not have the reputation for being as “high end” as Tesla, so if prices are equal it could be a tough sell. And while I don’t use the supercharger network all that frequently, I probably would not have bought my Tesla had it not existed. I don’t want a car that I have to worry about running out of power because I can’t find a fast charging network nearby.

 

[MARKM3]

You don't have a choice with Tesla, you have to go AWD. At least you get the option with the Ford, and it is about $9,000 cheaper.

That's the same feeling when I first drove my brand new Autopilot home from delivery but that's because I was using it wrong!

Since then for more than 3 years, it's very relaxing to use Autopilot with hardly any nags at all.

I don't need to visually look at the instrument cluster to see when the nag message comes on.

All I need is to obtain torque feedback from the steering wheel so I can monitor its behavior at all times and I can also predict when it's about to steer the wrong way so I could seamlessly correct it.

Just hook your hand on the steering wheel and you can feel how it steers without staring at the instrument clusters.

I use Autopilot almost all the time, even in the city, even while waiting at a red light and waiting behind a car in front for left turn. Instead of watching for when the car in front do the left turn, I just relax and let the Autopilot to start to move with the lead car and then I take over for the left turn. Extremely relaxing!

I know, but when I put my hand on the wheel I feel as if I should just be driving anyway, it's a weird feeling. I wish they would let you stay hands off for the Autopilot system, but it's just personal preference.

 

[jkdman123]

LOL at wanting a Ford because they supposedly have better quality. Ford products, like most other domestic car makers, are warmed over crap. Design wise and workmanship wise.

And the Mach E is a vast departure from Ford’s other products. Guaranteed they have huge service issues when the thing gets released.

 

[1965Falcon]

You don't have a choice with Tesla, you have to go AWD. At least you get the option with the Ford, and it is about $9,000 cheaper.

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers. They are growing rapidly and with all automakers using them I imagine their coverage will outreach Tesla enormously when it is all said and done.

With the 2wd you only save $2,700. I know we have a few electrify america chargers around here, but the cost is so high it would be a detractor if you had to use them a lot. I think it's great that Ford seems to be getting serious, I have no doubt they will slowly gain a market share but they will have a while to get to where they can compete with Tesla on specs.

 

[Dutchie]

I hope you're right. Tesla cannot do it alone and EV's of other manufacturers are so far mediocre at best. If Ford comes with a really compelling EV that will make EV's known to a much wider audience and that will benefit all of us; including Tesla.

 

[Tam]

I know, but when I put my hand on the wheel I feel as if I should just be driving anyway, it's a weird feeling. I wish they would let you stay hands off for the Autopilot system, but it's just personal preference.

That's GM Super Cuise way for complete hands-off but not with Tesla Autopilot.

It only took me 1 first drive to switch to the hands-on requirement for Autopilot and it has been very relaxing since then.

It's true that it's like babysitting a toddler trying to drive: I still have to watch for potholes, dangerous road debris, cars cutting me off in front, cars merging from sides...

But still, it's very relaxing!!!!

 

[Knightshade]

1) Autopilot is awesome, but I find myself only using it roughly 10% of the time I drive. The nag every 10-15 seconds, and the fact that on non highway roads you're limited to the speed limit or less - have me just driving the car - and it is a blast to drive. On long road trips, using autopilot causes me to feel tired and I find myself driving for majority of the trip

You're using it wrong, as noted. ESPECIALLY on road trips AP used correctly does exactly the opposite of what you describe.

2) The interior is holding up well over the past year, but there are constantly squeaks and rattles that annoy me and something I'm not use to from legacy automakers.

I've owned multiple cars from Chevy, Buick, Ford, Dodge, etc... all em had that.

Even my Lexus, the brand JD Power has ranked #1 in quality most years for the last 2-3 decades, had interior trim things the dealer had to fix (my dead pedal snapped a mount 2 weeks into ownership for example.... happened a second time after about 18 months... apparently they had revised the part by then as the third one lasted another 10 years with no issue)

By no means is Tesla Lexus for overall build tolerance and quality, but neither is Ford.

3) Having drive two hours away to the nearest service center for warranty work has been a pain over the last year

Your sig says you're in Raleigh.

There's a service center in Raleigh and has been for longer than the Model 3 has existed.


So...that's weird.

4) The SC network is very nice, but it has become less and less important to me now that I have driven an EV for a year. With most destinations I go to not having a SC, I find myself having to find wall outlets and third party charging networks to make traveling in the model 3 viable

99% of the US population is within 150 miles of a supercharger. Every single US state has multiple ones except North Dakota.

Raleigh has one. Plus several more in literally every direction from Raleigh outward.

Where exactly are these "most" destinations there's no SCs on the way to or from?

So where does the Mustang Mach E come into all of this? Well since the release of the Mach E three months ago, Ford has really garnered my attention with their EV offering. I was always under the impression that Tesla is 7-10 year ahead of all legacy automakers in the EV space, but wow was I wrong.

No you weren't. For example Ford is using a much larger battery to get almost as much range as Tesla. The "300 mile" Mach e is using a nearly 100kwh battery for example.

Ford's first attempt at an EV is not only amazing, but it is downright genius and is a serious contender to those looking at purchasing a model Y.[/ I have never owned a Ford in my life - but the Mustang Mach E checks all the boxes (range, performance, tech, design, service, etc.) and it has me seriously considering Ford's Mustang Mach E in a few years when it is time for an upgrade.

Good thing this is a few years away. Because Ford lacks the batteries to produce these in significant numbers.

The entire first year of production is gonna be 50,000 cars. Which is how many cars Tesla sells in about 7 weeks.

And most of those 50? Going to Europe.


If you're very luck the tax credit will still exist in a few years when you try and buy one- but if so it'd only be because Ford still hasn't figured out how to make more cars.


As to service- go read up on all the Jaguar and Audi EV owners who have found most dealers have no idea how to service their own brands EVs. Go read up on the eGolf, which VW dealers won't service at all outside of a select number of states.

Maybe Ford will do better. But I sure wouldn't assume it.


Don't get me wrong- the Mach E, as long as the tax credit exists (or if they cut prices by $7500 when it's gone) is certainly a REASONABLE alternative to look at, on paper anyway (we don't have production ones to really judge yet of course)- but it's still pretty clearly a generation or two behind Tesla on a lot of engineering points.


Still, it's great they're making a decent EV.

Tesla seems to be showing us there's way more demand for GOOD evs than there is supply- Fords not gonna make enough cars for a while yet to change that, but if they keep selling the small #s they ARE able to produce it'll help drag other brands into the reality that EV demand is very high and the only thing holding it back is lack of good EVs.

 

[Tam]

...almost to par with a Model Y...

I wouldn't consider any EV a real one (They are more like a compliance car to prove that they are green) until it can beat Tesla on a cross-country trip for 48 hours and 10 minutes including charging:

 

[camalaio]

Everyone (I blame myself in this as well) likes to point out how long distance travel is required once in a while, so Superchargers are the only real solution.

But just how far are we talking? I go out about 700km in any particular direction from my house, and that's about it. And we drive a lot. My life is still young, but I've only once travelled further than that, halfway across the country. The wife swears we're never doing it again and I don't blame her. If you have Tesla Model 3 money, you probably have domestic flight money for that one time in 5 years that you do so. Plus this drive only became possible with a Tesla 2 months ago!

If I look within 700km any direction, CCS & CHAdeMO outnumber Tesla Superchargers both in number of locations and number of stalls. The network is indeed slower right now (mostly 50kW stations), but at least they exist and 50kW is still plenty if you're not doing cross-country trips. It's not inconceivable that others are in this situation, especially outside major Tesla hubs like California. As long as you can actually pull the 50kW when you arrive after pulling up a mountain (looking at you Nissan Leaf) then this is honestly fine for early adoption (which everyone likes to remind us we're early Tesla adopters to this day, so I'm calling it fair to say we're in early EV adoption stages yet).

The more widespread deployment of CCS/CHAdeMO also means I don't have to make detours to Superchargers. Some locations require odd routes just to hit Superchargers, making a 1h30m impact to travel time. Or, I can hit a slower CHAdeMO station and not go out of my way.

LOL at wanting a Ford because they supposedly have better quality. Ford products, like most other domestic car makers, are warmed over crap. Design wise and workmanship wise.

And the Mach E is a vast departure from Ford’s other products. Guaranteed they have huge service issues when the thing gets released.

While much of this will be opinion, there is nothing high quality about the interior or exterior workmanship of Tesla vehicles and there never has been. I'm not saying they don't look nice (which is again, entirely opinion), but their workmanship leaves much to be desired. This is heavily documented.

 

[Knightshade]

You don't have a choice with Tesla, you have to go AWD. At least you get the option with the Ford, and it is about $9,000 cheaper.

There are more 350KW electrify america chargers near me than tesla superchargers. They are growing rapidly and with all automakers using them I imagine their coverage will outreach Tesla enormously when it is all said and done.

Again- your sig says Raleigh.



Looking for CCS chargers at EA locations- There's 1 2-port one at Target in Cary. There's also 12 Supercharger stalls in Cary.

There's 1 5-port in Raleigh. There's also 12 supercharger stalls in Raleigh.


So your facts, again, don't seem to line up with reality.

(We can go further out if you like- then I get to mention the superchargers in Burlington, Henderson, Rocky Mount, and smithfield- all 8 stalls each.... versus Electrify Americas 3-stall chargers in Henderson, Rocky Mount, Smithfield, Hillsborough.... you do get to add the 2-stall in Wake Forest I suppose but you're falling further behind the larger we make the radius and you were already way behind to start.)


Wait- my bad... most of the EA locations I listed turns out they're only 50 kw not 350.

In fact NONE of the Raleigh or Cary spots list better than 50 on plugshare. Ditto Wake Forest.

Smithfield, Henderson, Hillsborough are it in listing 300+ kw chargers. All just a few stalls each.

Versus the several dozen Supercharger stalls in that same radius out from Raleigh.


So your claim makes even less sense.