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MX 60d AP Wording Changed

Discussion in 'Model X: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Gregkeys, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    My MX 60d is due for delivery in December,

    My Order sheet changed from saying:
    "Autopilot Convenience Features 2,500"

    to

    "Autopilot Hardware 1 with Convenience Features 2,500"

    Elon stated that ALL vehicle coming out of the factory now will have the new hardware suite..... does anyone have any idea why my order sheet would say Hardware 1?
     
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  2. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    Yeah because they updated the descriptions to accurately reflect what you ordered. The next step will be to update in process orders to the new option codes. But before they do that they will probably contact you to see if you want to upgrade to one of the two new packages. (So they only have to change your order once.)
     
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  3. rainforest

    rainforest Member

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    Yup.... my wording changed as well. We're in the same boat. Will you upgrade to enhance AP for additional money?
     
  4. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    Absolutely, a self driving car is a dream I'm already forking out a lot $5000 more is small in comparison

    Although I think those who paid for AP should receive APE for free, either that or tesla should make an AP non enhanced available (maybe listed as no longer available) with just one camera to make it clear there is a difference in what we paid for.

    Imagine if it was just the seats that changed from standard to enhanced, maybe they folded down now and had better airbags since ordering, or maybe the material changed to one that costs twice as much, should we be charged for every change made between confirmation and delivery, that's crazy

    Don't get me wrong I do understand self driving is a much bigger change and i think Elon was right to introduce it as a new product.

    I'm just a bit chuffed that they don t have AP non enhanced listed as an option to order for the $2500 I already paid so that the new product I have to pay for after our original contract is obviously a new product.

    It just feels like a slimy way to handle a cost increase.
     
  5. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    I would have thought they could have worded it as "Autopilot Hardware 2 with version 1 Convenience Features 2,500" to just clearly define that you do not need to change your order and could just accept the old functionality on the new system.
     
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  6. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    Agreed that would have been nice
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    That is exactly what they are doing.
     
  8. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    They probably will, but they haven't gotten around to updating the option codes on the in-process orders yet. (They just updated the descriptions on the existing code to make it clear what the code means.)
     
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  9. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    That's not what my DS said, we have to pay more to get APE
     
  10. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    You gave them two options and they are doing one of them:

    And that is what they are doing. You get the AP1 features with the AP2 hardware unless you pay to upgraded to the EAP level. (The description for EAP even mentions using 4 cameras instead of just 1.)
     
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  11. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    @MP3Mike I didn't give them any options I was just told I have to pay more.

    My statement was about how they could have made it less stressful and confusing....

    Nowhere does it say AP uses 1 camera. The ONLY option listed is APE which states going from 1 to 4 cameras which explicitly implies 1 is now included in the base cost.

    I paid for AP so I should get the 4 Cameras not the 1 which is included for NO additional charge.

    Just because the cost of AP increased I don't think I should be responsible to the extra that is a classic bait n switch, granted i LOVE the switch and will gladly pay the difference but I am pissed about how it was handled.

    They should literally list on the custom order form that either AP with 1 camera in now included or they should list that AP with 1 camera costs $3000 so that it makes sense that APE is not the same thing I paid for.

    By renaming the base option from AP to APE it comes across as a bait n switch.
     
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  12. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    It isn't bait-n-switch because you will still get the AP1 functionality that you paid for. There is no free 1 camera AP. (But it probably uses 1 camera for the safety features, i.e. AEB.)

    There are technically 4 combinations available:
    • Hardware version 1 with AP Convenience features
    • Hardware version 2 with AP Convenience features (Only for people that ordered before the reveal and paid for AP1 but will get AP2 hardware, you can pay the difference to upgrade to Enhanced AP.)
    • Hardware version 2 with Enhanced AP
    • Hardware version 2 with Enhanced AP & Full autonomy.
    And I am sure that your order will be update to reflect that soon. But the first step was to rename the old "Autopilot" to "Autopilot Hardware version 1 with AP Convenience features", the second step will be to try to get you to upgrade to AEP or AEP+FSDC, and finally the third step will be to update your order to reflect which of the three options you selected to go with.
     
  13. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    #13 Gregkeys, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    @MP3Mike you're right, it isn't bait n switch in the negative meaning of the phrase (it's more of a bait n upgrade), but the fact is we were told we would get one thing but are getting something else.

    What we are getting is significantly better than what we were expecting I definitely concede that. But the way it's being done sucks because they are making a confusing category for what I expect is a small group of people.

    I'm betting that the # of people like me that will have AP with hardware 2 using 1 camera is so small that they would be significantly better off to just upgrade everyone to APE.

    otherwise they will be spending time and money supporting a very small group of people who may end up being significantly more problematic than the money they made from the updates.

    They have to maintain different code bases or at minimum different options for non standard vs enhanced.

    They have to insure that 1 camera continues to work as well as hardware 1

    They have to deal with customer service and potentially media issues from people claiming that 1 camera caused their car to run a red light when 4 would have stopped saving that bus full of children.

    What happens when everyone but 2 or 3 people update they could end up maintaining the AP non enhanced just for them.

    I really think it's a bad move on their part separating the last orders before the switch from the new orders and discontinuing AP non standard.

    They didn't charge the people who paid $2500 an extra $500 when they raised the price to $3000 but for some reason they want to charge them when it goes from $3000 to $5000 it's a slippery slope in my opinion.
     
  14. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    I think there is confusion and frustration because Tesla's communication process, which has also been a weak point for them.

    Basically, while I personally understand what @MP3Mike is saying, I personally think they should have done so differently.
    1. Recode any pending orders to be "Autopilot Hardware 2 with version 1 Convenience Features 2,500"
    2. Reword the existing AP1 code to "Autopilot Hardware 1 with Convenience Features 2,500" for historical purposes
    3. Reach out to any pending orders to see if these AP2 w/ v1 feature people want to...
    (a) keep their setup as is (for the $2,500 they already agreed to)
    (b) pay the extra $2,500 to get Enhanced AutoPilot
    (c) pay the extra $5,500 to get Enhanced AutoPilot and Self Driving abilities (when software for that is released)

    This makes it clear that your existing order will be fine and you will get the functions you paid for originally (just on the new hardware), and then clearly let these buyers choose to get the newer features for the "at delivery" price difference, or keep their order as-is.
     
  15. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    My guess is that the 1 camera AP Convenience Features is the level that a full EAP will gracefully fall to if too many of the other cameras get blocked and/or fail. (So if you are going down a muddy road and all of the extra cameras get mudded over rather than totally disable the system it falls back to one camera mode with limited functionality.)

    So I don't think they will be wasting any time/money for just a very small group. (And the group you are talking about could easily be 30k people.)
     
  16. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    @MP3Mike yeah that makes sense if it does degrade. Also if the group is bigger than a few hundred there is reason enough to maintain the differences
     
  17. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    You have to figure that there was at least of month of orders pending, and they are making cars at a rate of ~2,300/week. So easily 10k cars, and we know people had scheduled deliveries up to 6 months out so likely more. (Of course who knows how many order AP1.)
     
  18. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #18 Ulmo, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    I agree with everything, except I have one status to add (mine):
    • Hardware version 2 with no AP Convenience features (but upgradable at any time to AP Convenience features (Only for people that ordered without AP Convenience features before the reveal and will get AP2 hardware), Enhanced AP, or Enhanced AP & Full autonomy).
     
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  19. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    Yeah they brings up an whole other category of people, what about those who did not order AP1 expecting to add it later for $3500 do they now have to pay $6000?
     
  20. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    OK, I can see that that got left out of my options, but I highly doubt they will let you order AP Convenience features after the fact as it isn't offered on new cars. So it would be:
    • Hardware version 2 with only AP Safety Features active (but upgradable at any time to Enhanced AP ($6k), or Enhanced AP & Full autonomy($10k)).
     
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