The main 400volt battery pack. The 12volt battery is for auto style stuff and is kept topped off with a DC-DC converter that is part of the car.
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If you need to do this, then the charging system in your ICE is busted, plain and simple. A properly functioning car, driven frequently, should not need its battery topped off.
Yep, right up until you fry the diodes in the alternator. Don't do that! :wink:
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I'm glad someone else said it... I was biting my tongue and just couldn't bring myself to do it! :biggrin:
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Supposedly Sears Diehard Advanced Gold AGM (not the "standard" gold, which is Flooded LA) is a re-badged Deka AGM made by East Penn, while the Diehard Platinum is a re-badged Odyssey. Both are excellent choices. I run the Advanced Gold in my Mini and my 911 race car (the Platinum is not available in those sizes), and Deka AGM's in my boats.
Why won't Tesla take some of their cells and MAKE a 12-volt battery out of them? It's been done:
Smart Battery® | 12V Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Marine and Automotive
Smart Battery® | 12V Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Marine and Automotive
Why won't Tesla take some of their cells and MAKE a 12-volt battery out of them? It's been done:
Smart Battery® | 12V Lithium Ion Batteries for RV Marine and Automotive
Again, as others have noted, it doesn't look like the 12V battery is the problem on my car. It is most likely the contractors which are under active recall right now. I am not sure why I would have faulty contractors on a car that was delivered just a few days ago. But then again I am not sure why I don't have the seats that I ordered and why random people got heated steering wheels and I didn't.
Tesla is a mess. I think our "black-hole" P85Ds were cobbled together with any available parts and duct tape. They are all Frankenstein cars sold at full price. I really should have listened to my brain and cancelled both cars. I think people who will get March builds will be very happy. Expensive mistake.
I am sure our Frankenstein cars will eventually be fixed under warranty but it will not be fun getting tow truck rides every few weeks to the SC.
Tesla needs to learn how to under promise and over deliver. Today, they are squarely in the over promise and under deliver camp.
Too bad.
Swap out those China contactors with some 1,000 amp ones:
EVTV Motor Verks Store: Gigavac GX110 1000 Ampere Contactor, Switches, gigavacGX110
EVTV Motor Verks Store: Gigavac GX110 1000 Ampere Contactor, Switches, gigavacGX110
Canuck
Well-Known Member
I think the answer is that those cells are much more volatile than lead acid and the last thing they need is any more bad press about battery fires. In fact, lithium batteries in Canada are classified as "dangerous goods"...
Did you know that Lithium Batteries are Dangerous Goods? - Transport Canada
bluenation
Member
i def agree. this prob is not a new prob. yet tesla has yet to fix this.
getting stuck in the middle of the intersection at below freezing with your kid, and no heating, no thing. waiting for over an hour.....what new years fun.
this car has been out since 2012. there's a new X coming out. this particular model is brand spanking new, & , top of the line
i just hope consumer reports's 'average' reliability rating was not too optimistic.
Here's my observation about the 12V battery problems in cold weather:
On an ICE car, you tend to have a huge, gasoline powered heater in the same compartment as the 12V battery. As it's charging back up, it's getting warmed.
On a Model S, the 12V battery tends to be in a colder location and doesn't really have anything to heat it up. I know there are heating sleeves you can get for ICE 12V batteries. Should the cold weather package include something like this for the 12V battery?
On an ICE car, you tend to have a huge, gasoline powered heater in the same compartment as the 12V battery. As it's charging back up, it's getting warmed.
On a Model S, the 12V battery tends to be in a colder location and doesn't really have anything to heat it up. I know there are heating sleeves you can get for ICE 12V batteries. Should the cold weather package include something like this for the 12V battery?
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
I find it amazing how many people are jumping to conclusions about what is wrong. While it's true that there was a clunk you can't determine that the traction pack or the contactors had a failure based on that. Any situation that causes them to open suddenly is going to cause a clunk. Just a few months back someone on this forum had a bad 12V battery on a car with around 100 miles.
Also the presumption that the cars are poorly made and that people will be going into the shop every few weeks is premature. Maybe you're right maybe you're not. But what I have seen so far is one front drive unit failure and an unknown problem (possibly 12V battery, possibly DC-to-DC converter, possibly HV contactors) on P85Ds. No matter how reliable the parts are there are going to be parts that fail, this is the nature of the way things go.
Also the presumption that the cars are poorly made and that people will be going into the shop every few weeks is premature. Maybe you're right maybe you're not. But what I have seen so far is one front drive unit failure and an unknown problem (possibly 12V battery, possibly DC-to-DC converter, possibly HV contactors) on P85Ds. No matter how reliable the parts are there are going to be parts that fail, this is the nature of the way things go.
Well, keep in mind that a lot of things can cause the contactors in the main pack to open. They are powered by the 12V system, which is powered by the 12V lead acid battery, which is kept maintained by the high voltage DC->DC converter. Any of these components could have failed, along with dozens of other components directly related to these systems. If the car completely died pretty quickly after the incident, I'd point my fingers at the DC->DC first, but that's me. I'd make this guess because it would make sense if the DC->DC was not maintaining the 12V battery properly then it would eventually dip below the voltage required to maintain closure on the main contactors, thus causing the issue at hand and the 12V systems would quickly die off afterwards as the battery got even lower.
If you look at the 85kWh pack tear down video and pics I did not long ago, you can see the contactors are not easy to get at, so I'm kind of surprised to hear they'll be doing this kind of service at the service centers... although I suppose it is probably less expensive to spend money on tech hours than battery shipping.
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Beat me to it!
I'll also note, however, that once the contactors open while under a decent load (they never do this under normal operating conditions) they are no longer as good as they were before due to the arcing that happens as they open. They'll always have a slightly higher resistance. :frown:
If you look at the 85kWh pack tear down video and pics I did not long ago, you can see the contactors are not easy to get at, so I'm kind of surprised to hear they'll be doing this kind of service at the service centers... although I suppose it is probably less expensive to spend money on tech hours than battery shipping.
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Beat me to it!
I'll also note, however, that once the contactors open while under a decent load (they never do this under normal operating conditions) they are no longer as good as they were before due to the arcing that happens as they open. They'll always have a slightly higher resistance. :frown:
Alysashley79
Active Member
@osama
so sorry this happened to you...but the good news is that you and your son are safe..that really all that matters...at the end of the day the tesla is still an amazing car and the service team will make everything right....don't get me wrong...I've ben frustrated over the past 15 months a time or two...or three but still love this car and can't imagine driving anything else...
can an I ask though...they say a plugged in tesla is a happy tesla...especially in the temps your in right now...can I ask why it wasn't plugged in? Not saying that would have made any difference isn't the world...but maybe?
so sorry this happened to you...but the good news is that you and your son are safe..that really all that matters...at the end of the day the tesla is still an amazing car and the service team will make everything right....don't get me wrong...I've ben frustrated over the past 15 months a time or two...or three but still love this car and can't imagine driving anything else...
can an I ask though...they say a plugged in tesla is a happy tesla...especially in the temps your in right now...can I ask why it wasn't plugged in? Not saying that would have made any difference isn't the world...but maybe?
1. Keep the car plugged in when not driving.
2. Use the App to preheat the car. Set the temperature to at least 26 and set range mode off.
3. Use the timer so that the charging ends about the time you start driving.
But what I think happened here is that the 12V battery wasn't charged up fully on delivery, as what you experienced is not a common problem.
bursch
Member
Osama, saw this on COPA this morning.
How did you know to remove the nose cone to access the 12V battiery?
- Bob
How did you know to remove the nose cone to access the 12V battiery?
- Bob
At least under 6.0, you see the line in the same place in many mild circumstances, so there shouldn't be a problem.
1) Car unplugged overnight in temperatures as warm as 50°C.
2) After ten hours of active 30A charging, followed by 30 minutes of pre-heating in 32°F weather.
3) Vehicle garaged at 60°F, but then stuck in traffic for ten minutes when it's 20°F.
mrElbe
Active Member
Holy crap Osama. Glad you and son are OK and the wife was not driving. Stuck in an intersection is dangerous to boot. This now has me even more leaning towards cancelling my potential Frankenstein cobbled together vehicle that is lounging in the Fremont back lot.
They need to train more tow truck drivers. How much time does it take to teach someone about "tow mode?"
Tesla service told us to do it when the tow arrived. The tow truck driver was clueless on how to release the emergency brake.
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MrElbe ... do yourself a VERY big favour and cancel. My cars have less than 200km each. I am going to try to return them today and get my money back. I will reorder in 6 months to a year when I am convinced that Tesla has their **** together.
