MY Battery Barely Warming Up

[Xtek]

@Matsayz thanks for the reply! About this part: wouldn't regenerative breaking be more likely to retain traction since it's not using the breaks as much? This may be a naive assumption, admittedly.

Brakes and regen braking apply the same physics to the ground, counter torque in the direction of travel. Brakes have ABS, they can detect when traction is being lost and modulate the force to maximize static friction. Regen has no such logic and will just lock up the wheels. I've had this happen when driving on ice in Banff with my P3D+.

 

[GtiMart]

@Matsayz thanks for the reply! About this part: wouldn't regenerative breaking be more likely to retain traction since it's not using the breaks as much? This may be a naive assumption, admittedly.

The electronic stability and traction control systems will lower the regen when they detect the wheels are blocking when it's slippery. It will behave very similar to ABS when braking. Because of that, there's no need to use the "low" regen mode in winter as a lot of people suggest. Other cars would completely kill regen if they slip which is extremely problematic and surprising, not so with Tesla. They did their job well.
None of this will save you when it's very slippery if you don't have the proper tires, as someone else pointed out.

 

[Xtek]

The electronic stability and traction control systems will lower the regen when they detect the wheels are blocking when it's slippery. It will behave very similar to ABS when braking. Because of that, there's no need to use the "low" regen mode in winter as a lot of people suggest. Other cars would completely kill regen if they slip which is extremely problematic and surprising, not so with Tesla. They did their job well.
None of this will save you when it's very slippery if you don't have the proper tires, as someone else pointed out.

For what it's worth it's not very good. I had it lock up my rear wheels when driving on ice and almost lost control of the vehicle.

 

[Big Earl]

According to the Tesla heat pump patent application, Model Y manages battery temperature differently than it does in the pre-heat pump Model 3. If you're just making short trips around town, it will not expend energy to heat up the battery, as that would be wasteful. If you're intending to Supercharge or taking a longer trip, it will warm up the battery. The decision process is complex and involves a number of variables, meta data and assumptions.

Patent info: US20190070924A1 - Optimal source electric vehicle heat pump with extreme temperature heating capability and efficient thermal preconditioning - Google Patents

If I understand correctly, you can still heat up the battery pack by preconditioning with the vehicle plugged in or simply by charging (delay charging so that it finishes close to your departure time).

 

[Xtek]

According to the Tesla heat pump patent application, Model Y manages battery temperature differently than it does in the Model 3. If you're just making short trips around town, it will not expend energy to heat up the battery, as that would be wasteful. If you're intending to Supercharge or taking a longer trip, it will warm up the battery.

Patent info: US20190070924A1 - Optimal source electric vehicle heat pump with extreme temperature heating capability and efficient thermal preconditioning - Google Patents

Does it do this via navigation? Guess that would make it a good habit to always set your destination.

 

[Big Earl]

Does it do this via navigation? Guess that would make it a good habit to always set your destination.

Yes - navigation destination is one of the things the HVAC (including battery thermal management) system takes into account.

 

[Gasaraki]

So with Fall here and Winter approaching we are getting some consistently colder days here in Wisconsin and I'm noticing a trend that the MY does not warm up the battery very quickly with temperatures in the 40's. I had a Model 3 SR+ and even on much colder days, the battery would get rid of the Regen dots pretty quickly. With temperatures like this, it would take only 10-15 minutes to get rid of all the Regen dots. However, with the MY I barely make any headway, even after a significant amount of time.

Yesterday it was 46 F here and I had been driving for over 30 minutes, and the dots still extended well past the D (as shown in the picture below). Have any other MY owners had similar experiences in the colder weather, with the battery warming up very slowly...almost not at all?

View attachment 600867

Damn, that is cold. One theory is that the inductive heater in the M3 is able to reach instant heat and be hotter than a heat pump, which has to "move heat" from the outside. The less heat outside, the less hot it is. However I think the heat pump still has an inductive heating element. So I don't really know if it's related to the heat pump at all.

 

[GtiMart]

For what it's worth it's not very good. I had it lock up my rear wheels when driving on ice and almost lost control of the vehicle.

I can't agree with you here. I have driven my model 3 (AWD) for a whole Quebec City winter. For reference we get temperatures all the way down to -30F or worse, we get plenty of snow, a lot of ice etc. I do have proper winter tires though. Not once have I felt the regen making me lose control. Now, in very bad situations, you might start slipping even at the slightest touch of the brake pedal, and ABS would kick in. It will always be frightening when there is low/no traction. I'm not saying regen is magical, I'm just saying it's not worse than ABS, on the Tesla. At least that is my experience.
A friend's Hyundai Ioniq will completely cut regen if it feels the slightest slippage. That gives the feeling that the brakes have failed, not good. At least Tesla doesn't do that, they modulate regen.

You're allowed to not like it obviously, and set regen to low.

 

[Xtek]

I can't agree with you here. I have driven my model 3 (AWD) for a whole Quebec City winter. For reference we get temperatures all the way down to -30F or worse, we get plenty of snow, a lot of ice etc. I do have proper winter tires though. Not once have I felt the regen making me lose control. Now, in very bad situations, you might start slipping even at the slightest touch of the brake pedal, and ABS would kick in. It will always be frightening when there is low/no traction. I'm not saying regen is magical, I'm just saying it's not worse than ABS, on the Tesla. At least that is my experience.
A friend's Hyundai Ioniq will completely cut regen if it feels the slightest slippage. That gives the feeling that the brakes have failed, not good. At least Tesla doesn't do that, they modulate regen.

You're allowed to not like it obviously, and set regen to low.

I was driving around Banff this past February in 0F with ice on the highway. Was coming up to the toll booths to buy the Banff parks pass and let off the accelerator, back end locked up and the car started to lose control had to counter steer a few times. I still have the footage from the dash cam I can dig up. For reference I was on Sottozero 3 winter tires.

 

[GtiMart]

Xtek, on ice there is no miracle. Whatever the system, you'll slip.

 

[Xtek]

Xtek, on ice there is no miracle. Whatever the system, you'll slip.

Brakes did their job and saved me from crashing. Stability control leverages brakes and ABS slowed the vehicle down safely after I regained control. My point was regen anti-locking (RAL? lol) isn't as good as ABS.

 

[Big Earl]

Here is a very good video series (3 parts) explaining Tesla’s new thermal management system.

parts 2 and 3 are linked in the video description.

 

[Rshephorse]

Okay I apologize if this is a silly question, but I'm still in the pre-purchase process and have yet to own a Tesla of any kind. When the regen isn't available (or fully available?) like this, does that mean you're not able to do one-pedal driving? Or does it mean that you can still do one-pedal driving, but don't gain the benefit of restoring some power to the battery? Just wanting to know if you have to change your driving style in these situations or not, basically.

Correct, and it can be fairly extreme! I've gotten so used to the one foot driving, that heading down a hill with a cold battery - really had to think for a second and mash on the brake as I came up to an intersection.... When regen is really limited it starts to drive like a typical automatic transmission care.... glides when you foot is off the accelerator. If you have a big downhill at the beginning of your drive- it will really pay to preheat the battery by charging or preheating.

 

[PKOttawa]

So I got in the car today and there were dots on both sides of the bar (green and black side) - temperature was 3 deg (37 Fahrenheit). So in the winter I guess you can’t brake or drive

 

[Big Earl]

So I got in the car today and there were dots on both sides of the bar (green and black side) - temperature was 3 deg (37 Fahrenheit). So in the winter I guess you can’t brake or drive

View attachment 602711

Looks pretty typical. You can warm it up by activating climate control from the app. 10-15 minutes should make a decent improvement. Also, don’t expect to supercharge quickly with a cold battery.

 

[PKOttawa]

Looks pretty typical. You can warm it up by activating climate control from the app. 10-15 minutes should make a decent improvement. Also, don’t expect to supercharge quickly with a cold battery.

Yah.. it’s the first I heard of dots on the battery use side ( the right side of the bar..)

 

[jcanoe]

Yah.. it’s the first I heard of dots on the battery use side ( the right side of the bar..)

Have you tried using Delayed Charging set to end as late as possible given the charging window? The battery will be warmed by charging.

 

[Xtek]

This happened with my X and with my 3, this isn't new. The manual states running climate 30-45 minutes before you leave will help with this.

 

[GtiMart]

Yah.. it’s the first I heard of dots on the battery use side ( the right side of the bar..)

Hah, you've never been in real cold. I left my 3 outside in a real Quebec cold winter day last year and did not preheat it. Plenty of dots on both sides. Acceleration was no better than a Prius, and I have LR AWD

 

[Koolio46]

Hah, you've never been in real cold. I left my 3 outside in a real Quebec cold winter day last year and did not preheat it. Plenty of dots on both sides. Acceleration was no better than a Prius, and I have LR AWD

Haha. So it will really neuter the acceleration that much...