My CO2 emission

[Shannontsoi]

Just received my first bill from HK Electric. Out of curiosity, I checked that I consumed 522 units (I am not quite sure what unit that is) for which I have to pay HK$574.79.

There is a remark at the bottom of the statement that reads "CO2 emission per unit of electricity consumed = 0.78kg".

The bill is for the month of December and I have traveled approximately 2000km in that 1 month period.

So, that means I have had 522 x 0.78kg = 407kg CO2 emission in this month. Divide that by 2000km, that means each km I consume 204g.

I compare that to a Porsche 911 GTS CO2 emission 212g/km (and some others around two hundred something gram/km), I wonder eventually are we really giving significantly less CO2 emission or we just want to believe it is true!!

Is my calculation about right?? Can someone help to verify??

 

[Vmax]

Hard to believe, that the emission is correct, but HK Electric generates the vast majority of their electricity using coal, unlike CLP.

 

[Shannontsoi]

Hard to believe, that the emission is correct, but HK Electric generates the vast majority of their electricity using coal, unlike CLP.

Do you know CLP's CO2 emission per unit of electricity consumed = ??

 

[3fiftynine]

Both HKE and CLP use base unit of kWh so 522units in their bills = 522kWh which is a energy unit.

I haven't looked for a while but to comply with latest EPD emission cap both companies use energy mix of gas/coal/oil (nuclear also for CLP), I doubt if they disclose their actual mix to general public as it's commercially sensitive. Coal is cheapest but a risk of breaching emission cap, gas is best but most expansive. Oil is always there as standby.

There are lots of discussion about how green, if at all, is EV. For me it's not just kg of CO2 emission it's about road side pollution and how toxic it is from ICE exhaust. Power plant emission is treated with FGD and particulate filters ... etc and it's disperse to atm from a tall stack. Also we can't live without electricity anyway therefore higher utilization of electricity will help improving efficiency at power plant.

 

[Obsoletion]

Is all 522 units for charging the Tesla? You dont have a shared meter with your home?

 

[Shannontsoi]

Both HKE and CLP use base unit of kWh so 522units in their bills = 522kWh which is a energy unit.

I haven't looked for a while but to comply with latest EPD emission cap both companies use energy mix of gas/coal/oil (nuclear also for CLP), I doubt if they disclose their actual mix to general public as it's commercially sensitive. Coal is cheapest but a risk of breaching emission cap, gas is best but most expansive. Oil is always there as standby.

There are lots of discussion about how green, if at all, is EV. For me it's not just kg of CO2 emission it's about road side pollution and how toxic it is from ICE exhaust. Power plant emission is treated with FGD and particulate filters ... etc and it's disperse to atm from a tall stack. Also we can't live without electricity anyway therefore higher utilization of electricity will help improving efficiency at power plant.

Thanks for clarifying.

I was always under the impression that EV saves a lot more than ICEs. Elon Musk said somewhere before that a power plant is much more efficient than individual ICE exhaust. But turn out my model S still produces 200+g CO2/km. And to me, it doesn't make a lot of difference if the CO2 are exhaled from a giant tall stack or the cars' exhaust.

I guess, we will be better off only when our power provider uses more nuclear or wind power, or clean power source like such.

- - - Updated - - -

Is all 522 units for charging the Tesla? You dont have a shared meter with your home?

No, I don't have a shared meter with my home. I applied from HK Electric for a meter specially installed for my charging of the model S. I wish I could install a solar panel like you to charge the car here in HK.

 

[3fiftynine]

I applied from HK Electric for a meter specially installed for my charging of the model S. I wish I could install a solar panel like you to charge the car here in HK.

I'm still struggling with management/other owners at my place to get my wall charger installed. Can you share how long it took for you to apply from HKE for a sub-meter under your name just for the wall charger?

 

[Shannontsoi]

I'm still struggling with management/other owners at my place to get my wall charger installed. Can you share how long it took for you to apply from HKE for a sub-meter under your name just for the wall charger?

As far as I can remember, not very long, around 1 or 2 weeks or so (it didn't matter anyway because I didn't have the car back then). EV Power installed the wiring for me, so they did the application as well from HK Electric.

I am lucky that our management office and owner committee had been both very helpful in approving my application. Hope you will be granted the permission soon. Charge at home (with Tesla wall unit) is the best solution in my opinion.

 

[Vmax]

CLP CO2 emission was 0.58kg/kWh (https://www.clp.com.hk/ourcompany/aboutus/resourcecorner/publications/Documents/Our_Energy_Vision_Towards_a_Greener_Pearl_River_Delta.pdf - see page 8)

It's about 25% less emissions than HK Electric. I admit I expected the figure to be even less.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

@Shannontsoi

Why don't you instal solar panels on your apartment? This way not only you will not emit CO2 but you will also save money.

 

[3fiftynine]

CLP CO2 emission was 0.58kg/kWh (https://www.clp.com.hk/ourcompany/a...ision_Towards_a_Greener_Pearl_River_Delta.pdf - see page 8)

It's about 25% less emissions than HK Electric. I admit I expected the figure to be even less.

CLP imports 70% of Daya Bay nuclear power station to Hong Kong CLP Hong Kong - Guangdong Daya Bay Nuclear Power Station

 

[Shannontsoi]

@Shannontsoi

Why don't you instal solar panels on your apartment? This way not only you will not emit CO2 but you will also save money.

I wish I could. It is not so easy in Hong Kong. It is already difficult for a lot of people (I'm one of the more lucky ones) to install a simple, small Tesla wall unit, not to mention a solar panel. It is almost impossible. But I hope this will slowly change and eventually we can freely install solar panels to save electricity.

 

[DITB]

Solar panels and wind turbines in Hong Kong are really important. And rain water harvesting for that sake. Even farming!

As electricity, food and water is imported into Hong Kong, we are dependant on the outside world to an extent where "big brother" next door can use it as a means to put pressure on - say - democracy and freedom of speech movements.

But not just that - simply the idea of being self-sustainable, in a way which doesn't burn anything, or require a huge consumption of ressources.

The introduction of EVs to Hong Kong has now started for real. Even though this is only the beginning of a transformation, the next step is to look at where the ressources are coming from.

As for electricity, tiny HK apartments aren't the best way. But there are loads of rooftops, expressway noise walls, and many other unused surfaces, that only display ugly concrete, quite often dirty and in dire need of paint as well.

Despite what many foreigners think, Hong Kong has a lot of open spaces. It's very polarized: There are built up developments with one of the highest localised population densities - right next to open natural areas, mountain sides and just nothing. Some think wind turbines are ugly, or ruins the scenery. Well, what if you can't even see the scenery for the smog?

It's on a national level that solar and wind needs to be encouraged, rather than banned. Restrictions in grid solutions and building codes makes it nearly impossible to host either wind or solar. Importing most of its water, Hong Kong receives lots of rain annually (mostly in the summer), which could be saved for mains water rather than just directing it into the ocean.

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For CO2 emissions to really take a drop, the next step is to promote renewable energy. If CLP or HK electric claims there are a certain amount of CO2 pr kWh - well, then it's because they are getting the electrons the wrong way!

 

[markwj]

I compare that to a Porsche 911 GTS CO2 emission 212g/km (and some others around two hundred something gram/km), I wonder eventually are we really giving significantly less CO2 emission or we just want to believe it is true!!

Is my calculation about right?? Can someone help to verify??

I think the Porsche figure you quote is 'tailpipe emissions'. It doesn't include CO2 used in extraction, refining, transporting, etc, the fuel. The equivalent figure for Model S is 0g/km.

This is the wells-to-wheels argument. For a true comparison, you need to include all aspects, but that is non-trivial (and I've never seen such a study that is HK-specific).

That said, 200+g/km is too high, and reflects the high percentage of coal in HK electric's fuel mix. There is a lot of pressure on the power companies in HK to reduce that, and the target of 2020 looks good and achievable. You can help - Google Hong Kong electricity fuel mix, and respond to the government consultations with your voice.

But, the really good news is that Porsche figure of 212g/km will get worse for the life of the car. The equivalent figure for your Model S will get better. Your car will get cleaner, the longer you drive it!