My DIY Rear Facing Jump Seats Retrofit (with Service Bulletin / Official Instructions)

[buttershrimp]

It's not a bad thought... since the bolts are replaceable, I just need to get these stripped bolts out... I already have replacement bolts and a torx plus socket... so I think that's a good option... body shop Jesus bolt... got it! Next time I put the seats back in, I'll do it without red thread locker... I'll go buy the blue thread locker or something and remove the red powder that's coating a small part of the new bolt threads.

 

[buttershrimp]

By the way... I was thinking the Jesus bolt meant grinding and X into the bolt and unscrewing... but it turns out that that's not what that means... What do you think about welding a large hexagonal nut or something onto the head of the stripped bolt and then just using a wrench to turn it? Any advice?

 

[buttershrimp]

Also, what about JB welding a nut onto the head... making sure not to get the weld on the underlying surface... and then using a wrench? PSI versus lb feet of torque... I'm not sure this will work... JB weld is up to 3900 psi, but I don't know if that will translate to turning the bolt

 

[buttershrimp]

one other idea... what if I JB glue weld my torx plus 45 and the torx 45 bit into the stripped bolt, and then I just try again with the rachet? If it doesn't work then I might lose the bits, but I could always go buy regular nuts to secure the bolts in the future and be done with this torx madness.

 

[Drewflux]

@buttershrimp

What do you think about welding a large hexagonal nut or something onto the head of the stripped bolt and then just using a wrench to turn it? Any advice?

This is the direction I would go with. Rather than JB weld. A quick zap with a MIG will do 2 things. Put a larger surface to wrench on and 2 the heat will work its way down the bolts to help loosen. The trick is to have a ratchet and correct sized socket ready after welding.

 

[Drewflux]

If you do go down the drill and extractor route. Go spend $10 on a left hand twist drill. The drilling action will help loosen the bolt before the extractor go's in

 

[David.85D]

If you have access to a mig welder, then try that. Have someone with a fire extinguisher or at least a spray bottle of water standing at the ready.

I use a dremel on all these things now. The fine metal cutting blades are great quality and you can grind the head off quickly and then put some flats on the stub.

This job will be a little harder as the nut that slides in the track won't slide out with the stub of a bolt on it. You will have to find a way to get it turning.

 

[buttershrimp]

I went to the hardware store and bought the following...

1) A 7/16 inch locknut to be glued on top of the stripped bolt and used as a dummy hexagonal bolt which I will attach with....
2) JB weld 2 part epoxy mix for metal which has 3960 psi holding strength... and 550 degree strength I plan to masking tape around the stripped bolt so if any loctite makes it onto the underlying surface, it won't defeat the purpose of turning the bolt
3) Sandpaper to rub the metal oxide coating off the stripped torx bolt prior to putting the glue
4) A Sparkplug extension for a wrench that fits a 7/16 inch bolt/locknut... I will grip the spark plug extension with a regular big ass wrench

I plan to fill the hole of the locknut which will also fill up the stripped bolt which is now in a fugly shape of a up torx plus 45 bit well as create more surface area for the bolt that will bond the epoxy stuff...

Now, in theory, this might work...

in reality, it's probably not going to work because psi holding strength may not equate to lbs. feet of torque required to break red loctite. If it works, I'll be amazed. If it doesn't work, I will just have to take it to a welder and have him do the same thing with an actual welded nut.... the reason for doing this is way is to see if I can do it without having to coordinate with a welder... and it is unlikely to damage the car, also, I have the replacement bolts in hand, which is why I don't want to cut the bolts out since I need the barrell nuts need to stay in place for reassembly. My only other question is whether I should try and heat this assembly up a little bit... since red loctite loses most of its strength at 450 F.... and the epoxy says it stays cured up to 550 F I'm wondering if I heat it up a little bit... let's say to 250 degrees, would it be enough to weaken the red loctite without weakening the JB weld? Or is it more likely to weaken both in equal measure? Anyone here have any mad chemistry knowledge that can help me breaking bad this bolt off? If it doesn't work... maybe someone can tell me how to make meth?

 

[buttershrimp]

For your amusement... I lifted the following off the "internets"
"Use epoxy to glue a nut onto the end
Two-part epoxy glue forms an incredibly strong bond, so you can use it to glue something onto the end of the screw that will give you enough grip to turn it. Use a type of epoxy designed for metal – J-B Weld is the strongest. The best thing to glue, if you have one, is a nut that just fits over the head of the screw. Position the nut over the head of the screw, then mix up the glue and use it to fill the gap between the nut and the screw. Be sure not to accidentally glue the screw to the surface that it’s stuck in! Wait for the glue to cure then use a spanner or socket to unscrew the screw using the nut.

Other type of glue are not strong enough for this trick, so don’t bother trying – you will just create a mess!

Weld a nut onto the end of the screw
A similar approach to number 4, but (if you have access to a welder) a much quicker one. Weld the end of the screw to something solid which you can use to grip it – a nut is perfect."

 

[David.85D]

Good luck. I hope it works. Sandpaper or dremel the nut also - you want a clean and rough surface. That epoxy has enough torsional strength if you can get a bond that matches the full strength of the glue.

If you are going to heat it, just heat the bolt before you put the epoxy on it. Once you decompose the loctite, it won't reset. I would be reluctant to heat the JB Weld. It says it can withstand 550F, but not that it has full strength at 550F. Hope this figure makes it through - you can see all these epoxy class adhesives are going downhill fast above 250F. Which one looses first is a toss up.

 

[buttershrimp]

Great info... so once Red Loctite is heated above 450, it's degraded? That will make it easier since I can probably just place the torx plus bit in the bolt and let it induce heat with a lighter ... then I can epoxy the jb weld on tomorrow and try to take it off the next day... then I can dremel it... Would a left handed stripped screw removal tool work? That may also be worth trying if it causes the bolt to turn eventually

 

[buttershrimp]

One last question! Do you know how much the rear facing seats weigh?

 

[David.85D]

The shipping weight for mine was 49 lbs including packaging - the seats themselves are probably 42-45 lbs

 

[David.85D]

I've been reading the loctite website. It says the cyanoacrylic products are thermoplastic (melt and harden back to normal). So, without knowing the exact product, I can't say whether heating will decompose it (what you want) or just melt it and then let it harden again. Sorry.

 

[David.85D]

Here's an epic comparison. Note the first choice is the welder. Might be easier to find someone to weld that nut on then futz around with everything else.

Extractor overview (pic heavy) - The Garage Journal Board

 

[buttershrimp]

Fantastic... The weight of the seats makes me definitely want the ability to remove them. One other question... if you were going to take this project to a welder or machine shop, and forgo the bolt extraction process, how would you make the seats removable? For example, I thought about welding a hinge type bracket on the flat piece of metal that connects the seats to the frame, and then using a slide bolt to secure it... that way, when you cut the metal piece beneath this assembly, it should line up exactly with strike mechanism. What do you think?

 

[David.85D]

I am reluctant to change the mounting method - you would really have to understand how and where the crash loads are, and I'm not up for that.

But, it doesn't have to be that hard. Buy some good quality hex head bolts and install them with the removable loctite (the low strength stuff). You can put them in and out whenever you want, and don't have to think too much...

 

[Drewflux]

Highly agree with above. Dont modify the mount. Swap the bolts for regular 6 point head. I dont think the jb weld trick will work but its worth a shot. If you get a body shop to weld a nut on. Remember to use standard weld safety step 1. Disconnect the 12v battery to power down all modules in the car.

 

[Drewflux]

Actualy whilst your at the body shop. Get them to weld a piece of welding wire to the barrel nut. It will make inserting to the frame slot easy and you can tuck the wire into the slot so it wont fall out when you have the seats removed

 

[buttershrimp]

Actualy whilst your at the body shop. Get them to weld a piece of welding wire to the barrel nut. It will make inserting to the frame slot easy and you can tuck the wire into the slot so it wont fall out when you have the seats removed

Sweet... will do... How do you power down the 12 V battery? I love the idea about swapping the bolts to something easier.... as for the attaching a wire to the barrell nut, I won't have access to the back of the track... or at least I'd like to avoid pulling the carpet up. From talking to the Tesla service center, he said the bolts should stay in place after the bolt come out immediately.... but once you start driving without them secured, all bets are off...

He also recommended "chasing" the threads in the barrell nut to remove the residual loctite inside of them and then reinserting a dummy bolt to hold them while seats are not installed.... seems like a good plan to me. he also said they have a heating coil they use when removing seats, but they wouldn't do it per their policy now.

I'm going to contact the machine shop before trying the loctite idea... I wouldn't be suprised if they can remove it without welding somehow... maybe heating it up and then turning the bolt with massive grip, although the angle is tight