My driving range was only 58% of estimated, and 37% for climate control

[GtiMart]

Seat heaters: I was just giving a counter-example, don't take it too seriously. I didn't check OP's message closely enough that's all. No worries.

There's a limit to the energy that heating will use, once the cabin is already warm. Instead of consuming 6-7kW initially it will probably go down to 2-3kW constant. Over an hour that's 2-3kWh. Driving 120kph instead of 100kph probably consumes ~50wh more per km, which would amount to 6kWh more over that same hour. Rough numbers to give an idea. I'm not saying heating is insignificant, I'm saying that if you need to conserve energy you can start by slowing down (on the highway). If you need to save more you can certainly reduce heat.

 

[KenC]

Seat heaters: I was just giving a counter-example, don't take it too seriously. I didn't check OP's message closely enough that's all. No worries.

There's a limit to the energy that heating will use, once the cabin is already warm. Instead of consuming 6-7kW initially it will probably go down to 2-3kW constant. Over an hour that's 2-3kWh. Driving 120kph instead of 100kph probably consumes ~50wh more per km, which would amount to 6kWh more over that same hour. Rough numbers to give an idea. I'm not saying heating is insignificant, I'm saying that if you need to conserve energy you can start by slowing down (on the highway). If you need to save more you can certainly reduce heat.

All good info, but in the OP's unique case:

His usage doesn't appear to be on the highway, so slowing wouldn't save him nearly as much energy as using less heat. The new Energy chart shows he drove 87miles, and used 98miles worth of EPA-rated miles. Or, 12.6% more energy than EPA-rated. Something like 275Wh/mile. Pretty good! He presumably was driving surface roads.

It's the heat which sucked down his energy. 39% of his energy use was heat. For short 5-10mile trips, that's a lot. I don't know about you in Quebec, but here in Maine, I don't even turn on the heat for short 5-10mile trips. I just turn on the seat heater, and I have a $15 steering wheel heater that plugs into the 12V outlet.

 

[Unclepaul]

ICE owners get similar mileage reductions in similar circumstances. Cold starts engage a choke or enriched fuel mixtures, reducing dramatically first mile economy. In addition, many ICE owners pre-start their cars to warm up the interiors and allow time for the defrosters to clear windshields etc. This dramatically increase fuel usage, especially for shorter trips.

EV owners are advised to keep their cars plugged in, if they wish to have their interiors warm before starting out. This will also warm the batteries for increased efficiency.

 

[Benito1283]

When I'm doing a bunch of errands / short drives in cold weather, I usually "Keep Climate On" while parked. I might lower the temp a few degrees (or raise a few in the summer). I haven't tested it or done the calculations, but unless I'm in a store for like 30+ minutes, I imagine you'll end up using a lot less energy just keeping the cabin at temp than letting it get cold and blasting the heat to warm up for each short drive.

 

[bluhorshue]

Just wanted to try not using any climate control to see what kind of results I would get. I thought the many short trips would be an issue, and wanted to get some data points. Reality set in and I left my seat heater on the lowest setting. Anyway, on my latest 2.4 mile drive I used 1.5 miles worth of climate control with the heat off. The fan doesn't seem to have a way to shut it off entirely, so I set it to level 1. Obviously a short drive like this isn't a great example, but it suggests at the least that the seat heater uses at last 1.5 miles of range just starting up even for a really short trip. The "since last charge" data is mixed, so I'll charge and try to do a whole load without the heater on.

 

[KenC]

Just wanted to try not using any climate control to see what kind of results I would get. I thought the many short trips would be an issue, and wanted to get some data points. Reality set in and I left my seat heater on the lowest setting. Anyway, on my latest 2.4 mile drive I used 1.5 miles worth of climate control with the heat off. The fan doesn't seem to have a way to shut it off entirely, so I set it to level 1. Obviously a short drive like this isn't a great example, but it suggests at the least that the seat heater uses at last 1.5 miles of range just starting up even for a really short trip. The "since last charge" data is mixed, so I'll charge and try to do a whole load without the heater on.

View attachment 884647

You just turn the climate power button off, or hold the temp digits a few secs and it turns gray, which is off. With that off, the seat heater I think shows up under Everything Else. You should get ZERO under Climate. As you can see, the Everything Else used a lot less than Climate.

Oh, even if you turn off the Climate, the seat heater will stay on. Not entirely obvious.

Again, look at my screen. It's 22F outside, I drove 20miles, and used 6% driving, 0.0% Climate and 0.6% Everything Else. Look at the temperature setting of 68F, it's greyed out. Meaning the climate is off.

Even in 22F conditions, I got better than the EPA rating driving 20miles, because I was driving 45mph on surface roads, and didn't use the heater. The seat was set for "3". And, I plugged in a steering wheel heater into the 12v outlet.

 

[dansev]

Well, one thing is for sure: EVs take a massive hit to their range in the cold weather and this is something of a dirty little secret. A lot of people buying EVs just don't know this before they buy. My Tesla sales person (who, I have to say, in hindsight, was HORRIBLE) basically said that I would lose "some range in the winter." 30% or worse is not "some range." Also, it really is a drag to keep the heat down to save miles. I miss the days of blasting the excess heat off my engine, right into my face! (I live in Boston, and it's cold here right now.)

 

[brkaus]

When I'm doing a bunch of errands / short drives in cold weather, I usually "Keep Climate On" while parked. I might lower the temp a few degrees (or raise a few in the summer). I haven't tested it or done the calculations, but unless I'm in a store for like 30+ minutes, I imagine you'll end up using a lot less energy just keeping the cabin at temp than letting it get cold and blasting the heat to warm up for each short drive.

With pure resistance heat it would not be the case. More heat is lost to the outside when there is a greater temp differential, so holding the temp higher is going to loose more heat. That’s just the way it works.

Now with a heat pump it’s more complex. Heat pump performance depends on more factors, for example if a heat pump is trying to heat quickly it will use a backup (less efficient) heat source.

 

[ucmndd]

Also, it really is a drag to keep the heat down to save miles.

So… don’t? What exactly are you saving them for?

 

[dansev]

So… don’t? What exactly are you saving them for?

I had a feeling that question was coming. And it's a good one! I guess I do it to put the least amount of use on the battery, and not waste money. While with ICE, it's just a "free" byproduct that will go to waste if you don't pipe it into the car, in an EV, you have a choice as to whether you want to generate that heat, and use the battery, possibly contributing to cell aging, and certainly throwing money away. Silly, I guess. Being cold sucks. But I think many of us get kind of obsessive about all this conservation of range, no? Am I the only one?? Don't get me wrong, I jam the go pedal without thinking twice about it. That's probably just as bad. Enjoy the car! (I need to remind myself.)

 

[ucmndd]

I had a feeling that question was coming. And it's a good one! I guess I do it to put the least amount of use on the battery, and not waste money. While with ICE, it's just a "free" byproduct that will go to waste if you don't pipe it into the car, in an EV, you have a choice as to whether you want to generate that heat, and use the battery, possibly contributing to cell aging, and certainly throwing money away. Silly, I guess. Being cold sucks. But I think many of us get kind of obsessive about all this conservation of range, no? Am I the only one?? Don't get me wrong, I jam the go pedal without thinking twice about it. That's probably just as bad. Enjoy the car! (I need to remind myself.)

My Model S turns 6 this week. I’m sitting at 155,000 miles. Original battery, original drive unit.

Just drive the car. Be warm and comfortable. The small stuff doesn’t matter. The “battery health” sorcery endlessly debated on this forum is almost completely inconsequential to the average owner. Waking up with a “full tank” every morning is one of the great benefits of EV ownership. If you have home charging and don’t drive more than say 150 miles in a day, who really cares what your wh/mi is?

I’m not one for “wasting” energy and am usually the first to encourage people to turn off all the power sapping garbage these cars have like sentry, cabin overheat, etc. But I don’t view “driving in winter while warm” as a waste of energy. It’s just the cost of doing business.

 

[Rocky_H]

But I think many of us get kind of obsessive about all this conservation of range, no? Am I the only one??

Waaayyy too many people. I think people lose sight of something. The battery is the tank of energy. EVERYthing has to come from that tank of energy. kWh isn't very intuitive to people, so converting it to "rated miles" is something people can picture a bit. But people get too obsessed with thinking that means it always need to equal their real distance miles in all conditions regardless, or their car is broken and they need to schedule a service visit. That doesn't leave any possibility of using any of that tank of energy for heating. So I do need to remind people that when you have to draw from that battery for heat, that is extra draw, and you're going to be farther away from 1-to-1 of "rated miles" to real distance ones.

But as @ucmndd says, "Who cares?!" The EPA police aren't going to show up at anyone's door if they are driving with higher consumption than ideal. Go ahead. This is how it is, and there's nothing wrong with it. On trips, I charge plenty and leave big sized buffers, so I just never have to worry about it. And driving around town daily, you REALLY don't have to worry about it. You're not going to get stranded locally because of using the heater.

 

[derotam]

Just wanted to try not using any climate control to see what kind of results I would get. I thought the many short trips would be an issue, and wanted to get some data points. Reality set in and I left my seat heater on the lowest setting. Anyway, on my latest 2.4 mile drive I used 1.5 miles worth of climate control with the heat off. The fan doesn't seem to have a way to shut it off entirely, so I set it to level 1. Obviously a short drive like this isn't a great example, but it suggests at the least that the seat heater uses at last 1.5 miles of range just starting up even for a really short trip. The "since last charge" data is mixed, so I'll charge and try to do a whole load without the heater on.

View attachment 884647

First I will echo what others said, go into climate controls and turn the climate control off. That will turn off everything except whatever the seat heater setting is set to. Just remember if your system is off and you go into the climate settings it will automatically turn the HVAC system back on.

Not trying to be nit-picky here but it needs to be said in order to stop the misconception that the seat heaters use a lot of power. Also it will help you more fully understand what does and does not contribute a lot to your energy usage. That 1.5 miles for just seat heaters cannot be right...unless that 2.4 miles took you a LONG time... your seat heater on high is no more than 100W(I don't think it is that much even). So sitting still for 1 hour it would use 100Wh. That is 0.0013% of the battery on a 2018 LR, which would be 0.41 miles. So to use 1.5 miles for one seat heater on high would be 3.65 hours.

Turn the HVAC off, put your seat heater on high, run the test. Then run it again with HVAC AND seat heater off.

 

[GtiMart]

It's a car, and not a cheap one at that, use it as a car. Keep yourself warm and comfortable, drive at the speed you wish. I never feathered the throttle on my previous WRX to save fuel, why would I turn off heating to save my battery? You can be nice to your battery in other ways, read the nice long threads about that if you feel like it.

The only time it makes sense to conserve battery is when going in an area that is not well served by superchargers (nor CCS/CHAdeMO if you have the adapter) and you don't have time for a level 2 charge.

 

[KenC]

Well, one thing is for sure: EVs take a massive hit to their range in the cold weather and this is something of a dirty little secret. A lot of people buying EVs just don't know this before they buy. My Tesla sales person (who, I have to say, in hindsight, was HORRIBLE) basically said that I would lose "some range in the winter." 30% or worse is not "some range." Also, it really is a drag to keep the heat down to save miles. I miss the days of blasting the excess heat off my engine, right into my face! (I live in Boston, and it's cold here right now.)

To be fair, it's never been a secret. Any cursory search on the internet will tell you that all batteries will suffer in the cold. Remember all the 12v battery ads on TV? The Diehard battery commercials? Do you have a smartphone? Everyone knows that smartphone batteries don't last as long outside in the cold.

Just look at GTImart's data. His driving is within 13% of its EPA rating. The battery isn't doing that poorly, it's the users conscious choice to use a ton of heat. There are ways to mitigate that. One pre-condition. Two, use the seat heater more. Three, get yourself a steering wheel heater for $15 if your 3 is older. Four, try different climate settings, like 65F and a fan speed of 2. All of those things will help minimize your energy usage.

As I showed above, it was 22F on Sunday and I drove to the gym and back, 20miles, and didn't use any heat. I got the EPA rated mileage. The battery is great. Why do I need to use heat? I'm wearing a winter coat, boots, hat and gloves. I don't need to get undressed in the car? What for?

Just keep in mind, even if you were to blast the heat right into your face, which is easy to do since the Tesla heats much faster than an ICE, you're still spending less on energy than in your ICE. The only difference is you're choosing to waste heat, where in the ICE, you had no choice, it's gonna waste heat all the time.

As for cell aging, don't worry about it. Using heat won't age your battery.

 

[Braumin]

You should see consumption when it is really cold out.

Seriously. Just use the heat. It's winter. It's cold. Be warm.

 

[3sr+buyer]

As I showed above, it was 22F on Sunday and I drove to the gym and back, 20miles, and didn't use any heat. I got the EPA rated mileage. The battery is great. Why do I need to use heat? I'm wearing a winter coat, boots, hat and gloves. I don't need to get undressed in the car? What for?

Yes, someone finally said it. You probably dress more warmly in the winter than in the summer, so you may find that a lower temperature setting in the winter is similarly comfortable to a higher temperature setting in the summer. Note that this can apply to houses as well as cars.

 

[Sans-gas]

I enjoy the new feature showing detailed battery usage on trips. I sometimes try to use the projected energy, even if I turn down heat, or slow down in the last couple miles to get there. Predicted usage has been pretty accurate until it got colder out (high 30’s).

 

[crazy150]

Forgive me if this has been discussed or if I’m wrong, but in cold conditions the battery internal resistance goes up significantly right? This results in poor performance and iirc Tesla will limit the capacity and current draw from the battery in these conditions. Estimates I’ve seen are 20% lowered capacity. On top of that is the increased draw due to climate control and don’t forget the increased drag due to colder air being more dense.

 

[GtiMart]

You get less peak power from a cold battery yes. On a -22C day I only had something like 120hp when I started driving That comes back up as the battery warms. A cold battery can also not provide as much total energy, Tesla show this with the blue snowflake and blue "slice" on the battery drawing, and the displayed SOC% is reduced by as much. as the battery warms get get access to more energy. I think I've seen up to 7% less available energy (temporarily).
On top there's additional draw as you indicate.