My experience at the Jaguar and Audi Dealerships today for their EVs

[BOBTHEJOCKEY]

Tesla stock dropping today because good old Goldman Sachs downgraded it. I was talking to a Tesla sales lady a few days ago and they are swamped with getting orders out before the end of June. The Fed tax credit drops another 50% after July 1. No problem with Tesla demand in June though.

 

[Blazin_MTL]

Did some mock-ups of how I wish the E-tron removed that hideous oversized kid toy looking from grill, with something sleeker.


Very nice work!

 

[Merrill]

A very large portion of a dealerships profits come from fixed operations that is parts and service. If there are no parts to sell and nothing to repair on a regular basis it will be hard to stay in business. It has been awhile since I was in the business but over the years the profit margin on a new car kept getting smaller and smaller. At one point the manufactures gave the dealerships what they called trunk money to help with the low profit margins. Not sure how it works in today’s market.

 

[Magellan55]

I'm guessing the dealerships will demand something similar to agree to sell EV's. As I understand, dealerships have a lot of control over which cars they order; the manufacturers can't just dump cars on them since the dealer is "buying" them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Audi/MB/Jag having to give a $5K incentive to a dealer to move an EV. So just one more way the ICE companies will have a hard time making a profit on their EV's.

One thing I noticed about the E-tron - it very much looks like the popular Q5, and performance sits between the Q5 and SQ5. With dual electric motors and 400 hp on tap, it should blow away both, but Audi probably throttled it back to avoid eating too much into Q5 sales. From Consumer Reports' initial drive, it's missing that EV punch off the line, further indicating it's being throttled. Will be interesting to see if Q5 sales do drop in proportion to E-tron sales - so far it looks like it didn't impact it in May.

 

[deemo]

I test drove both the iPace and eTron Friday back to back (dealers next to each other). Neither dealer was really ready to sell an EV since they did not know the cars very well and the differences between competing vehicles. I liked both in some ways but the screen operations were not very well thought out on either one.

The iPace was nice looking but very tight interior, seemed smaller than a Model 3, boot was much smaller than an S, about the same as the model 3. The jag drove well and was fairly quick and regen braking was adequate, but the auto steer feature was not good and we could not get the car to plan charging for a trip. The sales guy had a hard time with the menus and the other salesman who was brought in as "the expert" had a difficult time also finding some of the settings - kind of a mess.

The eTron outside looks like any Audi SUV but had a very nice interior, boot was smaller than X but was decent. The Audi drove nice but it did not drive like an EV - much slower than either the Tesla or the Jag and very poor one pedal driving - adjustment of regeneration seemed to do little. The Audi menus were a little better than the Jag but still some glaring issues. Tried to plan a trip and it found a couple of charging spots and then said unable to complete trip, apparently not enough range to get to the next public charger approx 95 miles away over a mountain pass even though elevation for next charger stop was over 2000 ft lower and car rated for 200 miles.

Neither was close to the Model X or S as a package - but between the 2, I would pick the iPace over the eTron - the eTron seemed to be an EV that was trying to be an ICE where the iPace seemed ok as an EV. Neither impressed me and at the price point, many better PHEV choices.

 

[xfea]

Today I stopped by the jaguar dealership to look at the ipace and at the Audi dealership to look at the Etron.

I first walked into the jaguar dealership and sat in the new ipace to check out the interior and exterior. I like the exterior but I was NOT impressed with the interior. I found the seats very uncomfortable compared to my 2017 Tesla MS. It didn’t even seem like the interior was “premium” in any way. I’d take the MS interior way over this. Too many little screens. I then spoke to a sales rep. Older gentleman and I was telling him that I like the looks of the exterior of the ipace and thought it was great more manufacturers are brining on electrics. His response “well, we’re being forced to.” I thought, oh here we go. He then went on to say “for a commuter car, they’re great. But for any long distance destinations, you are hopscotching around. They need to have at least 400 miles of range.” I thought to myself, once they reach 400, this guy would then just move the goal posts and say they need 500. He then went on to say how he knew a Tesla owner who got stranded on the side of the road due to miscalculation of his charge. This “salesman” was anti-selling the EV so much that if I was only slightly knowledgeable on EVs, I’d never want to look at another one again. I then said Tesla does now get 370 miles of range and his response was, “only in the summer.” The guy wasn’t wrong, but he certainly made the “range problem” seem much worse than it was. He kept coming up with straw man situations how like he couldn’t drive to Indianapolis (260 miles) and back in one day in an EV really easily. I have driven my Tesla out of state many times. True you can’t do cannonball run style trips but I still prefer to have more convenience the rest of the year. The salesman just ignored my comment.

Needless to say, I was NOT impressed with (Dave) at that Jaguar dealership nor the ipace interior.

I then went over to the Audi dealership and spoke to Chris. Night and day difference in sales reps. I thought the etron had a nicer interior and definitely felt well made. Seats felt better compared to the ipace but I still prefer my MS seats. I also still prefer my MS interior over the etron with the layout, screen and functionality. But I do feel that the eTron interior was better built. Didn’t care much for the exterior. Trunk space was okay but they did at least have a spare. Chris was definitely all for EVs and excited for them.

Still felt best to get back to my car.

All I can say is that having to rely on dealerships for selling a product can definitely be hit or miss. I’m glad Tesla doesn’t have that issue. Tesla just needs to get much better with their communication. They are lacking in that area. I lost a potential MX referral because of how poor the communication was between the sales staff and this buyer was. When I purchased my MS in late 2016, I had a really good experience with Tesla. Maybe that too is hit or miss.

"having to rely on dealerships for selling a product can definitely be hit or miss.."
Unlike TESLA experience in service and sales...
So many glowing experiences....LOL

 

[SO16]

"having to rely on dealerships for selling a product can definitely be hit or miss.."
Unlike TESLA experience in service and sales...
So many glowing experiences....LOL

You didn’t read the next few sentences of my post?

But quite frankly, my service experiences with Tesla have been glowing so far after 2.5 years and 33k miles. And yes I realize many have not had good experiences. I’m just talking about MY experience.

Even with Teslas sales communication failings, still much better than my Jaguar sales experience.

 

[scottm]

That jaguar “salesman” really did his homework on limitations of EV. Makes you wonder why? Was it his personal preference or was it directed by corporate?

It is obvious why.

Any very good car salesperson is going to sell you something they can sell as efficiently as possible, with highest odds of closing a deal, leaving you with a feeling that you've bought the right thing. This is what they're paid for.

It doesn't matter what the particular vehicle is that you buy, so long as you buy it from them. They are paid to sell what is in their sales kit. If supply is constrained, it's going to lower the odds of a sales success. You will get steered toward something that is more abundant. Better choice.

If there's any doubt in buyer's mind about anything, the salesperson is going to flesh it out... These are "potential objections" and they want to know as many as possible. They will plant trial seeds in your mind (i.e. range) to find sources of doubt.

And once all that is known, amazingly, they will come up with the perfect vehicle for you. Taylored to your every desire. Low friction.

When all doubts are minimized, they'll move in to strike. Selling to the "strengths" they now know you'll agree with. Feeling good, the deal is closed.

 

[Merrill]

They also try to sell what is in inventory.

 

[Zdrone]

On the Tesla sales communication level, my understanding is that when they tried to close all the stores at the beginning of the year, they also removed all bonus / commission from the sales staff. This means that the sales force that exists today is likely working for a flat salary/hourly wage and has no incentive to delight customers.

I was told by my “sales guy” that they do get bonuses but it sounded like everyone got the same thing. Inferred on my end but I didn’t want to push it.

Interesting thing he talked about was how they will fire the lowest performing people every month or 2 and bring in new blood. For those that want the bonus and to keep their job, there was definitely an incentive to sell.
When I was leaving I asked how to get him the sale if I decided to buy, he said his name was already attached to my email address so I didn’t need to do anything for him to get credit.
He did follow up a few times via email until I told him I purchased.

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[David29]

Some observations on a short drive in an Audi e-tron --

A friend of mine arranged to take a 24-hour test drive in and Audi e-Tron, and let me drive it for 20 minutes or so. Some impressions:

· I spent almost all my time driving, so I did not get a good look at the back seat, trunk or frunk.

· I did not try to adjust the HVAC or the audio system, so I cannot comment on those, except to say that the screens for those are bright, clear, with very crisp fonts. Much better display quality than Tesla (no tiny gray lettering). But my impression was that the screens were somewhat “busy.” It may be advantageous that the HVAC controls are on a dedicated screen and thus always visible.

· The instrument cluster screen was also bright and clear, with good sharp fonts, but again was a bit cluttered and some icons were smaller than I’d have liked. The heads-up display was nice, neither in the way nor difficult to see.

· I liked the seating position and outward visibility. Much better visibility than either the Model S or X mainly because of the narrower A pillar. I suspect the structural material is steel rather than aluminum. The seat was OK, but I was not in it long enough to tell if it would be comfortable for a long drive.

· The car accelerated at almost the same rate, 0-60, as my 70D, which is fine for me. It does not feel quite as quick off the line, either because it is programmed differently or possibly because it is heavier. Routine acceleration in traffic was “adequate” but not exciting.

· The car seemed fairly quiet, except that it was equipped with the new pedestrian warning sounds, audible at low speeds, and there was some audible motor whine under some conditions (also true in my 70D).

· I found it a bit difficult to get accustomed to the brakes. The multiple settings for regenerative braking were confusing (I have found this to be true on other EVs as well, spoiled by Tesla’s simplicity I suppose!), and I felt like the service brake was a bit touchy as it comes to a stop. This is all likely a matter of becoming familiar with the set-up and choosing your preferences, I suspect. Part of this might be that I have never had a car with paddle shifters for any function – in this case, they adjust the degree of regen. The screen indicators for regen were tiny, an exception to the generally good screen layout and graphics.

· The car felt like it “wallows” a bit. In other words, the suspension seemed softer than either the Model S or X, and had more body roll. (Having said that, it has been quite a while since I drove an X.) Again, this may be mostly a case of being used to my Model S, which is very stiff (I have the steel coil springs, not air). On the plus side, the ride was more comfortable than my Model S over a bad road that we tried. It absorbed the sharp shocks better, although there was body motion over the uneven surface.

· On the highway, I tried the self-steering and cruise control, and found it to be pretty good. It managed curves nicely and maintained distance as you would expect. It does not change lanes for you, apparently, and I did not drive it long enough to discover how it handles any tough situations.

· We did not try all the various settings for braking, steering, acceleration, suspension, and so on. There are many adjustable aspects of the car’s ride and handling that would be fun to try and could be used to maximize your enjoyment.

· I had a brief look over the body after I got out, and it was as you would expect for an Audi or other German car – perfectly fitted, even seams and gaps, and that solid bank-vault “thump” when you close the door. The lack of Tesla’s frameless windows no doubt aid in the sense of solidity.

· I was getting about 2.25-2.5 miles per kWh in my brief drive. As we have read, this Audi is one of the least efficient EVs. The car is large and heavy, not especially aerodynamic, and uses the juice rapidly. Still, it may well meet the needs of many people.

· This was definitely the most “luxurious” EV I have been in and will likely appeal to current or prospective Audi drivers who are fond of Audi’s styling, interior design, etc., but want to try an electric drivetrain. But I am not sure that someone driving this as their first EV experience would be “wowed” in the same way I was when I first tried a Tesla. I wish Audi well.

 

[Magellan55]

Nice summary. My guess is Audi was aiming to please other Audi owners with the e-Tron, rather than woo Tesla owners. So they took pains to make the transition from ICE as easy as possible. And based on the HP numbers, I'm guessing they dumbed down the torque a bit so it didn't intrude on their SQ5 sales.