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My Experience With EAP Suggests Not Only Won't FSD Go Up In Price, It's Going To Go Down

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One thing I noticed yesterday that I'm not sure I've noticed before is that nearly all of the Used vehicles Tesla is selling show FSD. I'm SURE that all of these didn't have it from the factory and I'm sure Tesla activated the functions to get more money from the sales. But what that tells me is that they don't believe that users buying the car would call and pay the $8k+ for FSD or they'd be foolish for unlocking it from the factory. Take it as is, just my opinion.
Could make the car easier to sell, That is one of the reasons I got FSD, makes the car new again.
 
For the early buyers that helped Tesla where it reached now, the prices kept going up on and on though. What was a 6k FSD (not just EAP), is now almost 11k. And comparable vehicle price itself has come down too, owing to economies of scale.

Without any sort of EAP/FSD, every new update that i get on my MR3 is just waste of an effort, nothing new at all. Guess my MR3 is just like any ICE car now, no new updates excite me any more.

Not complaining, but just responding in context from/being a 2018 buyer.
 
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Would everyone please just wait until the rewrite before predicting doom and gloom or victory is just around the corner.

^This!^
FSD is well known to be a FUTURE capability that is NOT currently fully complete. To say FSD isn’t worth the price “just for stopping at lights and signs” is judging it based only on its current capabilities, which are not complete.

The price we all have the option of paying for FSD today is essentially a pre-order.
Saying FSD sucks now would be like saying the Cybertruck or roadster or semi sucks and isn’t worth the price when nobody has one yet.

The only valid discussion I believe we could be having here with regard to FSD is whether or not we THINK they will ever get:
1. The software to the point that it actually works.
2. Software to work with the current sensor suite, and/or
3. Regulatory approval to enable it with no driver.

Notice ALL of those are strictly opinions at this point, since we are still talking about a future thing.
 
Are you posting from 2015?

I don't understand.

Here's the thing, clearly, your opinion on this is very limited as your usage of EAP is minuscule compared compared to those of us that has done thousands or tens of thousands of miles on it. I suppose if you're incapable of recognizing that your limited "weekend experiment" hardly represents the state of EAP, then it's entirely pointless to have this conversation with you.
 
^This!^
FSD is well known to be a FUTURE capability that is NOT currently fully complete. To say FSD isn’t worth the price “just for stopping at lights and signs” is judging it based only on its current capabilities, which are not complete.

The price we all have the option of paying for FSD today is essentially a pre-order.
Saying FSD sucks now would be like saying the Cybertruck or roadster or semi sucks and isn’t worth the price when nobody has one yet.

The only valid discussion I believe we could be having here with regard to FSD is whether or not we THINK they will ever get:
1. The software to the point that it actually works.
2. Software to work with the current sensor suite, and/or
3. Regulatory approval to enable it with no driver.

Notice ALL of those are strictly opinions at this point, since we are still talking about a future thing.
I'm like you, I happy to a beta tester.
 
To be honest, I just bought the EAP upgrade for my MX Std Range, with HW 2.5 and mostly love it - it is a big improvement on motorways and really cuts down on driver fatigue on long runs, much like cruise control did when it started to appear in the 80's here.

As for FSD, not really interested to be honest, don't think I'll ever trust a system to navigate our bad drivers, potholes, cyclists, delivery van drivers, pedestrians and poor road markings around cities, towns and villages in Ireland.

Summon does not work at all - (At least on my car) so a bit bummed on that as I had it on my previous S and used it a lot in parking garages. This was a feature I was quite looking forward to - ho hum - 1st world problem in reality, so not getting too stressed about it.

Still, the entire eco-system is improving steadily and to the point that even AP will now mostly drive safer on a motorway than most humans, so that has to be a good thing, right?
 
I’ve been debating on adding EAP to my MY. I have it in my M3 and have enjoyed the feature for 2.5 years. I have especially missed the auto lane change and Navigate on autopilot for long trips. I have struggled with $4k. Here is what changed for me. I read about Cadillac’s Supercruise. It appears to be the closest thing to EAP out there. I appreciate there will be argument on the differences. That sells for $2500 on Cadillacs but only if they have a tech package that is another $4k. Ok. I know this will sound a justification but it helped nudge me to buy EAP knowing the price is in the ball park of where at least another manufacture is landing. We plan on keeping both cars for years. I might as well fully enjoy it. On another subject. Is it time to separate the EAP and FSD convos? EAP is driver assist. FSD is going down the road of full autonomy. While I can appreciate the why behind FSD, I enjoy driving a car. I just don’t mind the car taking the lead once in a while
 
I would rather see dashboard display improvements like the 360 overhead global view with my front camera like I have on my other EVs. Why can't Tesla do this? https://rb.gy/mgq1b7

How about a crossing alert for vehicle or personnel traffic when you are backing up. I have that in my other EVs. I get the alert before the camera sees it.

Or, how about a side camera view when you turn on your blinkers. Just assures you see the side traffic that you might miss unless you have your side cameras turned on with the rear facing camera?

And why can't we have a front facing camera view when we want it? I would like the help in seeing my parking limitations?

Tesla could bundle these enhancements and called FDO Full Display Options and charge me a Premium fee to down load them.

All of these little and easy software enhancements I would rather have than that $2,000 speed boost for my model Y, or more promised FSD features that even though I bought it, I never use!!! I can drive more efficient without auto pilot which does not give me the regeneration that I want or good real time display of what I am getting.

Add 3 more levels of regenerative braking. My Mitsubishi SUV PHEV has 5 levels of auto generation, with great graphic views in dash of the regeneration, or zero regeneration if I just want to coast to pick up free miles down a hill. Sometimes hyper-miling makes for more energy efficiency. My PHEV can coast for ever!! If on autopilot I would be burning electrons in an attempt to keep a steady speed. Waste of energy!
 
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There will be features introduced to FSD that people will really want. At that point the price will be higher. The rewrite which is about 6-8 weeks away from reality is going to create a platform for those features. As of now-I don’t believe the price is justified. I bought it anyway and love what it gives me now. I paid $6k when I ordered the Y on launch day. I do believe that when competition heats up (years) there will be a competitive price point established by the market with associates functionality. In the next few years the cost for FSD may be trivial or baked in. Remains to be seen. We are fairly early adopters and the test bed. There is a price to pay for that as a premium.
 
First off, I really enjoy FSD et al as-is for what it can do now.

I don't think it will be viable until a large majority of cars on the road are operating with it on standardized software.

I agree some form of that needs to happen. Here's my take. There are three elements that I think must be in place for Level 4/5 to be an actual reality:

1. All cars (mandated) to have some type of 'FSD chip' for lack of a better term. Even a car with standard legacy cruise control would have to have it for no other reason that the ability to communicate its capabilities (and lack of) to other cars in it's vicinity and/or the cloud. Once some threshold of rollout is met, then without it, you can't drive on certain roads and autonomous roads will roll out a little at a time, it won't be "hey, all the roads are autonomous friendly on month/date". I'm not sure how that would even work but consider interstates for example will be easier to "autonomize" as it is now than city streets and neighborhoods.

2. The cloud/big data/AI etc. to manage what it can manage and handle anything it can where strict lack of latency isn't required. Including assisting with #1 and helping manage the autonomy of the vehicles on the road.

3. The FSD complete cars and their abilities augmented by consuming/using #2 and #3.

The thing about FSD in the Tesla as it stands is not all the great things it can do, it's the things it can't do. Sometimes when mine gets confused, you can almost tell where/how it got confused then realize how hard if not impossible solving that would be with just some cameras and sensors; and if the car is the only thing doing the thinking (see #1 and #2). And when it gets confused, it can get very dangerous very quickly.

As I said in my opening, I really like it as-is for what it is useful for and I hope to see it grow but my bigger fear than any of the above is there's gonna be a person or two who engage FSD, recline and go to sleep and kill one or more innocent people on one or more occasions, and right after that, FSD is at least temporarily going to go the way of "Lawn Darts" for longer than any of us want it to. IMHO, that's the more concerning discussion for all of us that have it and paid for it.
 
A lower price will lead to increased adoption and more users and revenue. proced too high too few get it in my humble opinion

I am surprised Tesla has not introduced subscription model already for EAP/FSD. I would expect a moderate revenue stream and help their profits

I avoided FSD due to $7k charge at the time and all the issues I read.

autopilot can be very aggressive with breaking when a car slows in front of you and turns. I worry about getting rear ended or cause and issue in the highway.

I did find it overall better than the version on 3 yr old BMW 340i except for the occasional aggressive braking/ fandom braking
 
I remember too Elon saying Tesla's will appreciate in value dramatically when they are autonomous, and the whole Robo taxi thingy. None of which is going to happen any time soon. Even some basic functionality and reliability for common situations is still not there. The car can't make up its mind what to do when a road widens, the poor visibility of the cameras at night (eg cyclists / potential obstacles that are tagged in the daytime are invisible to the cameras at night).
Features to improve driver safety always start as high cost options when the technology emerges and end up becoming standard equipment due to competition or government regulation.

I still love the car for what it can do now tho :) my M3 is a fantastic achievement for an EV, I'm just being realistic don't think it will ever be able to drive through city streets any time soon without driver intervention.
 
This whole thread is like deja vu. Full of people who paid a wad of hard earned cash for a unicorn and then desperately trying to justify it to themselves and those who didn't!

I paid for EAP on my 2018 MX and it was probably just about worth it when the alternative at the time was nothing. At least I didn't pay even more for FSD which would have had literally zero additional benefit in the UK. If I was buying a new Tesla today I would just go with the standard issue AP. I know it's a bit crippled without lane change, but on the other hand lane change can be pretty frustrating anyway and frankly I can think of much better things to spend the money on.

Anyway it is mildly interesting that EAP is back on the menu. I'm not a believer in FSD becoming reality for a very long time, at least not in the lifetime of my current Tesla ownership. I'm also starting to sense that more and more other people are coming to the same conclusion regarding FSD and not buying into it quite so boldly as before. Maybe the reason why EAP is back again as it's a slightly more realistic sell, although still pretty expensive now that AP is the baseline rather than dumb cruise control only.
 
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I think the autonomous features will definitely improve over time and I think most would agree lots of improvement has been made since the inception of the Model 3. Elon has made several comments about both the affordability of the cars as well as autonomous driving. The recent information about the $25k car shows they are working on the affordability of the hardware. However, FSD keeps going up in price and by the time the affordable car is made, FSD won't be affordable if it stays on its price increase trajectory. Paying something like $10k for FSD on a $25k car just seems to not make financial sense but everyone's view on value is different I guess. I wouldn't be confident that FSD pricing WILL go down but think it would be a win-win if it DID go down. Higher adoption, more data, increased sales, etc.
 
For the early buyers that helped Tesla where it reached now, the prices kept going up on and on though. What was a 6k FSD (not just EAP), is now almost 11k. And comparable vehicle price itself has come down too, owing to economies of scale.

Without any sort of EAP/FSD, every new update that i get on my MR3 is just waste of an effort, nothing new at all. Guess my MR3 is just like any ICE car now, no new updates excite me any more.

Not complaining, but just responding in context from/being a 2018 buyer.

Assuming you have AP, for the next couple of days you can get EAP for $4K.
 
I don't understand.

Here's the thing, clearly, your opinion on this is very limited as your usage of EAP is minuscule compared compared to those of us that has done thousands or tens of thousands of miles on it. I suppose if you're incapable of recognizing that your limited "weekend experiment" hardly represents the state of EAP, then it's entirely pointless to have this conversation with you.
Here's the thing -- you're arguing a point that I wasn't making. You're arguing that EAP is great and most people love it (the first is your opinion, which is OK, the second is your wild guess, which coincidentally is just your opinion overlaid on everyone else. Yay your opinion!

I'm arguing (and your clue to this was THE TITLE OF THE THREAD) that there's no way the product offers enough to justify Elon's belief that he will be able to command a higher price for this going forward and I think the price will go down as the features become widely available from other manufacturers at lower prices. So, by all means, score all the points you want in the parallel argument that you're having only with yourself. But you haven't said anything that argues against the actual points that I made.

The 2015 comment was referring to your belief that Tesla is miles ahead of the competition in any single thing that they do. That's an argument that was correct 5 years ago, but indicates you may not be paying such close attention over the last 2 years. I'm betting the folks at Tesla don't agree with you. I hope they don't, for Tesla's sake.

And anyone comes in with an Apple comparison, by the time it was clear that Apple's tech was no longer miles ahead of the competition, they already had an installed base in the hundreds of millions worldwide. People were invested in the ecosystem and saw little compelling reason to change. Tesla doesn't have that kind of position. If they sold every car they have ever sold in 2019, they still would barely have 2% global market share.

It just means they'll have to work harder, investing more in price and technology. Which are good things.

But Level 2 autonomous driving for $8000 when Cadillac is selling a product that is, at worst, in the ballpark for $15 a month is not a sustainable position. Even if you really like it.
 
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