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  • The latest TMC Podcast (#14) is now available on YouTube and all major podcast networks. We covered FSD Beta's exciting v11 update, Enhanced Autopilot coming to the U.S. and Canada, and more!

My Full List of AP Gripes

Coming from a new 2022 Model Y LR owner (previous 2016 S 90D):
  1. Phantom braking - no need to say more, except the 2016 S did not have this issue. Not once.
  2. Poor lane decisions - There are a few areas where a turn lane appears. with solid white lines on both sides, a big white turn arrow on the ground, and it's literally to the left of the lane I'm in. For some reason AP loves to decide to take that lane instead of going straight. At least until it's halfway into the lane. Oh, ok then we brake and veer back right. So dangerous. My 2016 S did not have this issue unless it was a lane split without clear lines starting early enough.
  3. The steering wheel nag is not sensitive enough. I drive with both hands on the wheel, and I've still been nagged so much it shuts off AP for the rest of the drive. I literally have to tug the wheel hard like all the time. My 2016 S did not have this issue.
  4. Ok minor, but I swear the stalk double pump is just too non-sensitive. It take a bit of a rhythm to get the double pump to turn on full AP. Many times I just turn on TACC instead of AP. I would have preferred just a simple button push or something.
  5. No ability to change lanes without shutting it off. Why could my 2016 S AP Gen 1 do this? Heck it even changed lanes for me.
  6. Again minor, but the steering wheel icon in V11 in Y's and 3's is just too small. It just takes a fraction of a second more to find it.
I guess I'm just disappointed in this aspect of a 2022 Tesla, after much better performance on all of the above from my 6 year old S, So, nothing productive here, just getting it off my chest. Thanks for listening.
 

diplomat33

Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Aug 3, 2017
9,461
13,448
Terre Haute, IN USA
  1. The steering wheel nag is not sensitive enough. I drive with both hands on the wheel, and I've still been nagged so much it shuts off AP for the rest of the drive. I literally have to tug the wheel hard like all the time. My 2016 S did not have this issue.

I think Tesla did increase the nag threshold because of FSD, to make sure that drivers are paying attention.

I think it is "better" to drive with one hand. The nag system measures torque. With one hand, it is easier to create torque. When you drive with both hands on the wheel, your hands will create counter torque that cancels each other out. So the system will measure zero torque and give you more nags.

I drive with one hand at the 9 o'clock position. Having the weight of your hand on the left side of the wheel creates torque and is usually enough to satisfy the nag. If needed, I gently tug the wheel every time I see the nag alert. Sometimes, I drive with one hand at the 6 o'clock position and give a gentle side to side tug when I see the nag alert on the screen. It works.
 
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Poor lane decisions - There are a few areas where a turn lane appears. with solid white lines on both sides, a big white turn arrow on the ground, and it's literally to the left of the lane I'm in. For some reason AP loves to decide to take that lane instead of going straight.
I have the same behavior but primarily on right turn lanes. You’ll be driving along a curvy two lane double-yellow line road and there will be a short right turn lane with lines and an arrow (even shows the arrow on the display) going into a neighborhood, and my car will veer over into the turn lane and then back into the travel lane when the turn lane ends. I’ve been flagging this since 10.5 with no fix forthcoming.
 
  1. Poor lane decisions - There are a few areas where a turn lane appears. with solid white lines on both sides, a big white turn arrow on the ground, and it's literally to the left of the lane I'm in. For some reason AP loves to decide to take that lane instead of going straight. At least until it's halfway into the lane. Oh, ok then we brake and veer back right. So dangerous. My 2016 S did not have this issue unless it was a lane split without clear lines starting early enough.
i'd agree here i have a 22 MYP and yeah the lane choices are questionable when one lane branches into 2, i feel like what it does has more to do with where you happen to end up as the lanes start to diverge, rather than which lane you'd actually want lol... ie... its not actually deciding which lane to take but rather suddenly realizing its not in its lane and going "back" into the lane it thought it was supposed to be in.
The steering wheel nag is not sensitive enough. I drive with both hands on the wheel, and I've still been nagged so much it shuts off AP for the rest of the drive. I literally have to tug the wheel hard like all the time. My 2016 S did not have this issue.
this is a bit annoying yes, however i've found if i rest my left arm on my knee or the door and kind of hang my hand from the wheel in the 7 oclock-ish position it provides enough pressure to satisfy AP without actually trying to pull on the wheel, i do let go during larger turns so i dont disengage lol, not perfect but it works
No ability to change lanes without shutting it off. Why could my 2016 S AP Gen 1 do this? Heck it even changed lanes for me.
i'm guessing you dont have FSD? auto lane change is included as a part of that now.


to the gripes i would also add the lane position. i REALLY wish it would move to the outside of the lane if possible when traffic is present, both oncoming and flowing traffic. its a little nerve-racking when passing a truck and it feels like your inches away lol. i'm sure its within tolerance for the system but it doesn't "feel" right lol
 

FLMan

Member
Supporting Member
Nov 25, 2021
66
32
Florida
#3: I've tried one hand, two hands and it's never enough. I end up staring at the inside camera yelling that I have my hands on the wheel and to stop nagging me (in case they are listening) but it still nags a few seconds later. :)

Why can't they "see" that you have your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and stop nagging you.

#5: When I discovered this one my immediate reaction was: what's the point of AP if you can't change lanes and keep it enabled? My commute is 90% highway and COVID is over where I live and has been since mid-2020 so the roads are full. Full of commuters and full of tourists which means lane changes all the time. There's just not an option to sit in one lane from start to finish.

On regular AP (not Navigate on Autopilot) these two are so annoying I don't even see the point of AP. I played with it for a while then never used it again. FSD NOA is almost useful enough that I can live with #3 long enough to get home (#5 is handled smoothly so it's not an issue on NOA). I also found that changing the speed or volume on the steering wheel sometimes stops the nagging when using NOA.
 
#3: I've tried one hand, two hands and it's never enough. I end up staring at the inside camera yelling that I have my hands on the wheel and to stop nagging me (in case they are listening) but it still nags a few seconds later. :)

Why can't they "see" that you have your hands on the wheel, eyes on the road and stop nagging you.

#5: When I discovered this one my immediate reaction was: what's the point of AP if you can't change lanes and keep it enabled? My commute is 90% highway and COVID is over where I live and has been since mid-2020 so the roads are full. Full of commuters and full of tourists which means lane changes all the time. There's just not an option to sit in one lane from start to finish.

On regular AP (not Navigate on Autopilot) these two are so annoying I don't even see the point of AP. I played with it for a while then never used it again. FSD NOA is almost useful enough that I can live with #3 long enough to get home (#5 is handled smoothly so it's not an issue on NOA). I also found that changing the speed or volume on the steering wheel sometimes stops the nagging when using NOA.
i do really wish they would make the interior camera more useful at detecting what your doing, like other systems. you should be able to take your hands off the wheel if you are literally facing forward with your eyes open looking at the road lol... i think they will get there tho since those other systems rate higher in satisfaction in that one specific area (thinking GM Super Cruise).

also, good point about the wheel nag i always forget interacting with either of the wheel controls on the steering wheel will also satisfy the nag.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
15,667
29,730
NC
Coming from a new 2022 Model Y LR owner (previous 2016 S 90D):
  1. Phantom braking - no need to say more, except the 2016 S did not have this issue. Not once.


  1. Was this AP1? Because there's tons of stuff that system couldn't do at all, so bit of apples and potatoes comparison.

    [*]Poor lane decisions - There are a few areas where a turn lane appears. with solid white lines on both sides, a big white turn arrow on the ground, and it's literally to the left of the lane I'm in. For some reason AP loves to decide to take that lane instead of going straight. At least until it's halfway into the lane. Oh, ok then we brake and veer back right. So dangerous. My 2016 S did not have this issue unless it was a lane split without clear lines starting early enough.

    This user error.

    AP is not intended for use anyplace that has turn lanes in the first place. It's intended for use on controlled-access highways.

    The same was true for AP1. The fact it might have "worked better" someplace it's not meant to work notwithstanding.


    [*]The steering wheel nag is not sensitive enough. I drive with both hands on the wheel, and I've still been nagged so much it shuts off AP for the rest of the drive. I literally have to tug the wheel hard like all the time. My 2016 S did not have this issue.

    It's a torque sensor, not a grip sensor. Eventually you'll find one of the several easy/comfortable ways to hold it that works for both you and the system.


    [*] No ability to change lanes without shutting it off. Why could my 2016 S AP Gen 1 do this? Heck it even changed lanes for me.

    it changes lanes fine (actually far better and safer than AP1) if you have FSD, not basic AP.

    That said- keep in mind the newer car actually can tell if it's safe to change lanes thanks to sideway facing cameras... your AP1 car didn't have those- it had no way to know if a lane change was clear at all except the ultrasonics that only worked at VERY short range- so that was far less safe a system.



    Disclaimer- on the off chance your 2016 was a very late model that had AP2, the comments above would be pretty different, though stuff like the highway only ODD and grip vs torque sensor would still apply
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
15,667
29,730
NC
i do really wish they would make the interior camera more useful at detecting what your doing, like other systems. you should be able to take your hands off the wheel if you are literally facing forward with your eyes open looking at the road lol... i think they will get there tho since those other systems rate higher in satisfaction in that one specific area (thinking GM Super Cruise).

also, good point about the wheel nag i always forget interacting with either of the wheel controls on the steering wheel will also satisfy the nag.



The interior cam was never intended for this purpose... they've managed to sorta kind make it work for checking drivers eyes (if not wearing polarized sunglasses)- and kinda sorta work for detecting using a cell phone if you don't hide it in the right place-- but it's not positioned well at all for this---it can't even see the steering wheel, let alone if your hands are on it.

tesla-in-cabin-camera.jpg
 
  • Informative
Reactions: diplomat33
The interior cam was never intended for this purpose... they've managed to sorta kind make it work for checking drivers eyes (if not wearing polarized sunglasses)- and kinda sorta work for detecting using a cell phone if you don't hide it in the right place-- but it's not positioned well at all for this---it can't even see the steering wheel, let alone if your hands are on it.

View attachment 772887
oh i agree 100% i wasn't saying otherwise, simply that i think at some point they will bend to customer demand, especially as similar (tho simpler) systems crop up and people like that particular feature (being able to take your hands off the wheel). besides its Tesla, if anyone can figure out how to make it work with what they have in place its them lol.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,636
8,075
Snohomish, WA
Here are my gripes, and I'm going to pull from the OP's gripes and redefine them a bit.

1.) Excessive Phantom braking compared to the 2015 Model S that I had three years of experience with. Much of the PB braking with Telsa Vision is nuisance, and encourages spousal arguments and relationship discontent.
2.) The vehicle recenters during merge points, and lane splits which makes me look like an idiot driver.
3.) The steering wheel torque sensor isn't sensitive enough. The 2015 Model S I had was more sensitive. However, the driver monitoring has seemed to cut down on the nags so its not as bad. I wish Tesla would switch to a REAL driver monitoring system or switch to a capacitive based sensing system instead.
4.) I don't like that the stalk is used for multiple functions. I believe its a poor UX decision
5.) Tesla forces new customer to shell out $12K (or do a subscription for $199/month) to get the autolane change feature which would make AP a lot better. I have this gripe despite having EAP/FSD. It doesn't impact me, but I can understand the annoyance.
6.) The V11 UI sucks. Sure its not AP, but you can no longer do a simple glance to see the status of most everything.

Additions

7.) TACC simply isn't smooth enough. I want ultra smooth mode.
8.) Still no pot hole detection, and avoidance.
9.) Still completely stupid when it comes to changing speed for the new speed limit. It slows down AFTER the sign, and not the sign that says the speed limit is changing.
10.) No ability to report map issues that would help fix PB caused by bad map data (like turns that don't exist).
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,636
8,075
Snohomish, WA
I think Tesla did increase the nag threshold because of FSD, to make sure that drivers are paying attention.

I think it is "better" to drive with one hand. The nag system measures torque. With one hand, it is easier to create torque. When you drive with both hands on the wheel, your hands will create counter torque that cancels each other out. So the system will measure zero torque and give you more nags.

I drive with one hand at the 9 o'clock position. Having the weight of your hand on the left side of the wheel creates torque and is usually enough to satisfy the nag. If needed, I gently tug the wheel every time I see the nag alert. Sometimes, I drive with one hand at the 6 o'clock position and give a gentle side to side tug when I see the nag alert on the screen. It works.

Driving FSD Beta with one hand? That's ballsy.
 
I’m
The interior cam was never intended for this purpose... they've managed to sorta kind make it work for checking drivers eyes (if not wearing polarized sunglasses)- and kinda sorta work for detecting using a cell phone if you don't hide it in the right place-- but it's not positioned well at all for this---it can't even see the steering wheel, let alone if your hands are on it.

View attachment 772887
i wear polarized glasses always when driving and have had zero problems with the camera and attentiveness.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,636
8,075
Snohomish, WA
So you’re complain is about your spouse. Got it.
It's a spot on complaint when one of the release notes specifically said it would move over in the lane when passing a truck.

So to me its a failure of Tesla own design intent.

But, we all know spousal arguments count double. I even know that as a single person. :)
 
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Reactions: Sporty

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
15,667
29,730
NC
I’m

i wear polarized glasses always when driving and have had zero problems with the camera and attentiveness.



The current system doesn't care (because it's incapable of seeing through the glasses).

That's why the probabilities display you see on the picture says "likely" for its sunglasses output. It can't actually tell.

So it just guesses based on if your head is straight ahead versus tilted down a bunch.


Other car makers, who actually intended to use the camera for driver monitoring, CAN see through them so they don't need to guess.


That's one of the reasons why the Tesla system isn't great at the job-- (another is other makers use IR to let it see your eyes well even in the dark, Tesla lacks that too) but it's better than nothing.....and since the EU is going to be requiring driver monitoring going forward, it's likely "good enough" to satisfy that requirement without Tesla having to design new HW and such
 

am_dmd

Member
Jan 29, 2017
367
428
PA
FSD will be even more worthless without Auto lane change. That’s why they bundled it with FSD.
Even though newer cars have side cameras yet manual claims we should look over the shoulder and confirm lane change so it’s same as not having side cameras (similar to AP1). Also my personal experience those cameras can not detect any fast approaching vehicle from behind. I would happily take AP1 auto lane change that was included with AP and didn’t cost $12k 🤷‍♂️
 

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