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My grid outage frequency issue is resolved!

Discussion in 'Tesla Energy' started by gpez, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. gpez

    gpez Member

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    Well it's been a trip. I'll link back to this from other posts that relate to the issue but wanted to start a clean thread with my experience. Long and short of it is if you're experiencing similar issues get the latest firmware (1.37.1 for me) and call Tesla to fix the frequency settings for your inverters.

    I have an 8.6kw solar system (29x Enphase IQ6 microinverters, UL1741 certified) and my one Powerwall was delivered and installed in March with firmware 1.34.3. I noticed during my first grid outage test that my LED lights flickered and UPS reported wall power available but switched to battery mode due to the frequency problem. After reading this thread and contacting Tesla support it became clear that the Powerwall was using a frequency that was much too high than needed to turn off the inverters. For reference UL1741 inverters are certified to turn off immediately if the frequency exceeds 62hz ("must trip high frequency").

    Well I'm happy to report that after some discussion with Tier 2 support and the upgrade to 1.37.1 my frequency issue is resolved! Doing a grid outage simulation test with the Tesla agent and I were able to see that the frequency bumped right up to 62.5hz which turned my inverters off without upsetting the LED lights or UPS. It was an on-and-off cloudy day so we waited until the Powerwall SoC dropped to 96% and then watched the frequency drop down to 60, which turned the inverters back on and began to power the home and charge the Powerwall. My understanding from my conversation with the tech is that while the updated firmware enables tweaking of the frequency settings they do have to be changed, presumably by Tesla remotely, as they're not set to the lower frequency by default.

    I'll try to get more data soon but am still fighting connectivity issues due to an antenna issue with my gateway.

    Powerwall 2 + UPS Connundrum - and solution
    New Powerwall 2 Installation and First Simulated Grid Outage Test

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As an interesting side note: when I was poking around with the Powerwall APIs I noticed that the Gateway does know the exact make and model of my inverters. I'm not sure how it does, my best guess is that it was configured by the installer after it was placed. If the Gateway trusts that information and knows that specific inverters are compliant with UL1741 then it seems trivial to fix this generally across all installs of the same inverters...

    (commands in black are Windows based, the curl tool is available here, server responses in blue, replace all variables in <>s with the applicable ones for your install)

    curl -i -k -X POST -H "Content-Type: application/json" -d "{\"username\":\"customer\",\"password\":\"<password>\",\"email\":\"<email address>\",\"force_sm_off\":false}" "https://<gateway local IP>/api/login/Basic"
    {"email":"<email>","firstname":"Tesla","lastname":"Energy","roles":["Home_Owner"],"token":"<token>","provider":"Basic"}


    curl -i -k -H "Authorization: Bearer <token>" "https://<gateway local IP>/api/solars"
    [{"brand":"Enphase Energy","model":"IQ6-60-X-US (240V)","power_rating_watts":8600,"server_count":0}]
     
    • Informative x 3
  2. pdxgibby

    pdxgibby Software Engineer

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    I think all iQ Enphase inverters also have a setting that will allow them to be more analog in the event of a power outage. Instead of solar production being ON/OFF based entirely on the capacity of your powerwall and solar production. My understanding is that you can configure the enphase micro inverters to gradually adjust the solar production based on load when there is a grid outage and there powerwall is fully charged.
     
  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    If the power wall wants frequency to be 66Hz.... its gonna be 66Hz. Frequency is usually how the PowerWall tells the grid-tie inverter how full the battery is. The AC couple inverter talks... the grid-tie listens.
     
  4. omega

    omega Member

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    Anyone knows why I can access my gateway via two IPs? (192.168.1.x and 192.168.1.y).
     
  5. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    Is it connected to your router via both ethernet cable and wireless? It would have two IP addresses in this case.
     
  6. gpez

    gpez Member

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    The T2 agent referred to this as the "float down/float up" setting. Not sure if that's an industry term or something that the Powerwalls do but I have experienced it where some inverters turn off and others stay on to provide less power.
     
  7. NuShrike

    NuShrike Member

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    I had tried an outage test today and the PW was sending 66Hz to my SolarBridge micro-inverters, just like everybody else on 1.37.1.

    I know my micro-inverters are UL1741 certified (SPR-X22-D), as well as CA Rule 21 phase 1, so thanks for the info. It's just too bad the inverter database in the PW is useless -- and out of date.
     
  8. NinjaVece

    NinjaVece Member

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    One is the TEG network and the other is either the WiFi or Ethernet connection to your local router you have set up.
     
  9. NinjaVece

    NinjaVece Member

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    gpez, are you saying T2 tweaked the Hz increase value for your particular system or that the new firmware saw that 62.5 Hz would do for your inverters and only raised it that much?
     
  10. gpez

    gpez Member

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    #10 gpez, Jun 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
    The new firmware allowed them to tweak and they tweaked mine to match my inverters. There was no automatic discovery of my system, just noticed that the Gateway did know my inverters as part of my poking around.
     
  11. gpez

    gpez Member

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    There isn't a database, just was an interesting observation on my part. Tesla had to manually change my settings with the new firmware.
     
  12. omega

    omega Member

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    Tesla did not yet implement an algorithm to automatically identify the inverters/freq and then only raise that as needed. Instead it raise it blindly to 65Hz.
     
  13. gpez

    gpez Member

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    Correct, though perhaps more accurately with the new firmware it raises it by default to 66hz. You can now call and have them change it from this default remotely.
     
  14. NinjaVece

    NinjaVece Member

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    Interesting. Ok, it’s what I thought. Tesla Support can simply tweak on a ‘per Gateway’ basis. I think the reason it can’t be done automatically is that not all inverters return info on type and Tesla wants to be safe by default so goes with 66 Hz - but now it is a value they can tweak individually for each Gateway if the owner vouches for the type of inverter.

    Too bad they didn’t use my 66 Hz blast concept as I’ve described before which would have obviated manual tweaking. I think I need to talk to support again...
     
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  15. gpez

    gpez Member

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    66hz is still too high for UL1741 inverters, 62.5hz is plenty. In fact I found my AFCI/GFCI breakers on my critical loads panel would trip randomly before this change. The T2 agent said they found that some brands of breakers (mine are Eatons) have frequency sensitivities. Turning down the frequency from 66hz to 62.5hz fixed both of these issues for me. YMMV of course.

    I give Tesla the benefit of the doubt that between the new functionality to tweak the settings combined with the Gateway's knowledge of the inverters that they can have the Powerwalls self configure to the best settings for each install at some point in the near future.
     
  16. pdxgibby

    pdxgibby Software Engineer

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    I really hope that we can get this variable frequency (floating?) dialed in. I will have representatives for my solar installation company onsite shadowing the Tesla Powerwall installation. My understanding is that it's a setting on the enphase micro inverters that needs to be adjusted to manage this. We shall see. I'll post an update once I get installed this week. Fingers crossed.
     
  17. pdxgibby

    pdxgibby Software Engineer

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    Okay. Hopefully having reps for PV system and Tesla on site during install will help get all the settings dialed in properly the first time.
     
  18. gpez

    gpez Member

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    If so that would be news to me. I'm not aware that my Enphase IQ6 inverters had anything special set to enable this.
     
  19. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    #19 nwdiver, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
    Unless Tesla decided to do something crazy... grid-tie is grid-tie and the grid makes the grid which is voltage and frequency. The battery backed inverter creates its own mini-grid for the grid-tie inverter to connect to so it can charge it's batteries and have another power source. The grid-tie inverter just follows along. Older grid-tie inverters were on or off but newer ones can actually decrease their power slowly as the batteries get full and the AC couple inverter slowing increases 'grid' frequency.
     
  20. pdxgibby

    pdxgibby Software Engineer

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    This makes sense. I think I was misunderstanding how the frequency modified inverter output. Seems that should be the Powerwall's frequency output.
     

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