Everyone's different about this stuff. 90% of what was mentioned I really don't care about (not criticizing anyone else just my position) and don't miss. The exception are the front seats--need serious bolstering and perforated seats would be nice--and a rear fold down console. I'd rather see them put their money into the engineering of the car than the bells and whistles.
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My initial thoughts/feedback on my 40/60kwh Model S
- Thread starter Ting Louie
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
To have so many cars and then miss the game changing difference that MS represents is odd. Perhaps I am assuming your car collection comes from a deep understanding of things mechanical and not a need to collect for status.
My electrical transportation sits right next to vastly superior ICE transportation when it comes to top speed, high end acceleration and, yes, cup holders for the four seater. I have to make a point to drive the ICE stuff to keep the batteries charged. This has nothing to do with being green (I'm not what would normally be considered green) and everything to do with the electrics simply being a more elegant enjoyable way to accomplish the goal..... Call it my close to home "game changer".
As for the bigger picture, I found myself out for a run the other day with all the cars driving by when the thought went through my mind that those very cars were simply a dumb way to get from one place to another. They use resources that should be used for other purposes for oh so many reasons. Had it not been for MS, I would not have had the basis from which to form the above observation. The view of that landscape has changed for me or, put differently, the game has changed.
and yes, I agree that MS can not hold a candle to the interior on just about any lux car. I've also found that, having been exposed to more room around me and less places to stash *hi* in the car, I prefer Tesla's approach.
My electrical transportation sits right next to vastly superior ICE transportation when it comes to top speed, high end acceleration and, yes, cup holders for the four seater. I have to make a point to drive the ICE stuff to keep the batteries charged. This has nothing to do with being green (I'm not what would normally be considered green) and everything to do with the electrics simply being a more elegant enjoyable way to accomplish the goal..... Call it my close to home "game changer".
As for the bigger picture, I found myself out for a run the other day with all the cars driving by when the thought went through my mind that those very cars were simply a dumb way to get from one place to another. They use resources that should be used for other purposes for oh so many reasons. Had it not been for MS, I would not have had the basis from which to form the above observation. The view of that landscape has changed for me or, put differently, the game has changed.
and yes, I agree that MS can not hold a candle to the interior on just about any lux car. I've also found that, having been exposed to more room around me and less places to stash *hi* in the car, I prefer Tesla's approach.
True; but it also depends on how your bailiwick's electricity is generated - if it's nuclear or coal, well...
I believe Florida uses primarily natural gas, which I suppose IS "good" relative to nuclear or coal - at least until one considers the ramifications of fracking.
Certainly, streets full of EVs instead of ICEVs would be more pleasant due to such things as noise and ambient air, but - considering such factors as the generation of municipal electricity and the extreme toxicity of post-life lithium-ion batteries - I'm curious to know if, in aggregate, EVs are any "greener" than what pervades now.
I'd argue that cars in general - although, God help me, I love 'em - are a pretty dumb way to get from one place to another, no matter HOW they're powered.
One can always find out the regional mix via How clean is the electricity I use? - Power Profiler | Clean Energy | US EPA.
I think your points are valid, and as others have said, most of them have been covered before on this board (cupholders, hill hold, grab hooks, etc.). However, one thing that comes across with your post is that you put the entire emphasis on performance and luxury, and yet wonder why some people are seeing the car as a "game-changer" when you see it as just pretty good or ok. I suspect the reason you don't see what others do is because other people are putting their emphasis on different features of the car than you are. Performance and luxury features may be the most critical items on your list, but for a different person, practicality and "fuel" efficiency are equally, if not more important. This is true regardless of what cars one owned prior to owning a Tesla - you don't need to have owned a slowpoke Prius in order to see the Model S as a great car, not just a good one.
What I think makes the Model S a great car, not just a good one, is that it combines many of the traits of other quality cars in a single package, with only minimal sacrifices in each category. It's the overall package. My daily driver was a Mercedes C350 that I sold to get the Model S - and I regret nothing after 2 months. Not only does it outperform my old car (not an AMG, admittedly, but it wasn't exactly an econobox either in the performance category), but it's far more practical. I can carry more people and far more cargo, it's quieter, it's far more energy efficient, it has a nicer interior, a way better in-car user interface, and it costs less than a third to "run" than my old car did (my electricity bill vs. my monthly gas charges). That's not even mentioning the "green" benefits of driving electric in California. If I were comparing on only one or two of those criteria, then I might not be as impressed as I am comparing the entire package. No doubt that there are faster cars out there I could have bought. So while 60-120 speed is cool and all, and I used to do that from time to time in my Benz, that isn't important to me in the times I'm using my car to ferry my toddler around, or making a Costco run, or hauling stuff home from the furniture store.
This isn't intended as defensive, just offering a different perspective. In my opinion, there isn't another car out there that has the combination of features with minimal tradeoffs that this car does.
Ting Louie,
Personally I agree with JohnQ that most of the things you list are bells and whistles of lesser importance to me, but everyone has a different opinion and certainly if you want those features you'd be better off with other luxury car brands. I do find it curious, however that on more essential issues of capacity and acceleration from 50-100 you are using different cars in your paddock to point out perceived shortcomings of the Model S. Forgive me for the analogy, but it's like saying that Lebron James isn't the best current NBA player because Stephon Curry has more 3-pointers and Dwight Howard has more rebounds, etc. Not that you have to agree that the Model S is the Lebron James of cars (forgive my hyperbole), just that you aren't making comparisons based upon the full attributes of the car. Yes, if it's just your "commuter" car that you need to get around when you don't want to enjoy driving, then I guess you spent too much on your purchase. But for many who have purchased the MS it is their daily driver for which they do want to enjoy that driving, and it is also their weekend car, and also the car they take camping, and haul stuff from the hardware store, and six kids, etc. And they also like not paying for gas. Remerging the Balkanized world of separate car typologies and functions has been a clear stated goal of Teslas and something the EV platform allows - a sports car with the looks of a quality sedan and the space and practicality of a station wagon. Many argue the MS combines those different typologies in a way that has never been done before. Is it perfect? Of course not, not least because issues of range still need to be improved for it to win over some people. Other enthusiasts buy it because they love the technology itself and believe those remaining issues will and are being addressed by a company that has done groundbreaking work that nobody else thought possible. I myself am in both those camps but as you say, it's not an inexpensive car and my pocketbook will keep me waiting till the next generation vehicle arrives.
After all that, I do have one specific question as to your review: no mention of the 17" touchscreen control terminal?! Really?! I'm not saying you're suppose to like it, but it's a vast leap from anything else currently on the market and a thoroughly different way to interact with the car - surely you can't be ambivalent about it?
Personally I agree with JohnQ that most of the things you list are bells and whistles of lesser importance to me, but everyone has a different opinion and certainly if you want those features you'd be better off with other luxury car brands. I do find it curious, however that on more essential issues of capacity and acceleration from 50-100 you are using different cars in your paddock to point out perceived shortcomings of the Model S. Forgive me for the analogy, but it's like saying that Lebron James isn't the best current NBA player because Stephon Curry has more 3-pointers and Dwight Howard has more rebounds, etc. Not that you have to agree that the Model S is the Lebron James of cars (forgive my hyperbole), just that you aren't making comparisons based upon the full attributes of the car. Yes, if it's just your "commuter" car that you need to get around when you don't want to enjoy driving, then I guess you spent too much on your purchase. But for many who have purchased the MS it is their daily driver for which they do want to enjoy that driving, and it is also their weekend car, and also the car they take camping, and haul stuff from the hardware store, and six kids, etc. And they also like not paying for gas. Remerging the Balkanized world of separate car typologies and functions has been a clear stated goal of Teslas and something the EV platform allows - a sports car with the looks of a quality sedan and the space and practicality of a station wagon. Many argue the MS combines those different typologies in a way that has never been done before. Is it perfect? Of course not, not least because issues of range still need to be improved for it to win over some people. Other enthusiasts buy it because they love the technology itself and believe those remaining issues will and are being addressed by a company that has done groundbreaking work that nobody else thought possible. I myself am in both those camps but as you say, it's not an inexpensive car and my pocketbook will keep me waiting till the next generation vehicle arrives.
After all that, I do have one specific question as to your review: no mention of the 17" touchscreen control terminal?! Really?! I'm not saying you're suppose to like it, but it's a vast leap from anything else currently on the market and a thoroughly different way to interact with the car - surely you can't be ambivalent about it?
All of the stock GtR's I have seen run at the track have run high 11's @11xmph. Not very impressive by my standards for a "production track car". A stock Z06 is by far a better performer. Anyone interested in serious performance ICe cars doesn't drive any of those stock cars anyway. They build a serious car or have one built. Comparing those ICE cars to a family hauler 4dr that is fully electric, and the first of it's kind(they are only going to get better and quicker) is pointless. The Model S isn't optimized for track ability, while those other cars are.
Hi, as a fellow bay area resident, can you tell me your usual freeways/routes and times you drive so I can avoid being near you?
I said it a really good car and glad they worked on the important stuff like the battery tech.... just a shame that they skipped / missed so many "basic" things i would expect for a car in the high 5 / low 6 figure price range
Alot of Tesla fanboys (including one of my P85 owning good friends) think the MS is the be all end all of performance....my point was that in my opinion it isn't, its quick, but not something I would throw in my definition of "super-fast"
I like the car, I own it and will probably own it for a while...if you don't like my initial thoughts on the car...then don't read it...just my opinion and no amount posting will convince me to change the paradigm on how i'm looking at the car
Alot of Tesla fanboys (including one of my P85 owning good friends) think the MS is the be all end all of performance....my point was that in my opinion it isn't, its quick, but not something I would throw in my definition of "super-fast"
I like the car, I own it and will probably own it for a while...if you don't like my initial thoughts on the car...then don't read it...just my opinion and no amount posting will convince me to change the paradigm on how i'm looking at the car
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Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Dude what is up with grouping coal and nuclear as worse than NG? Do you even know how a nuclear power plant functions?
It will be interesting to see what you think after a few months of driving your Model S. Some of the advantages of owning an EV take a while to appreciate. Please check back in here at TMC and let us know what you think then.
GSP
PS. I don't have an ICE fleet as impressive as yours or lolachampcar's, but they are very nice cars by my standards. Like lolachampcar, I have to make a real effort to drive them once per month, as I much prefer to drive my Volt, even though it is slower and has less luxury features.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
GSP,
I can not put my finger on exactly what has happened but I have changed owning the Zero first and now MS. That's saying something if you believe in the old dog, new tricks thing.
Ting,
I continue to be a bit confused when you compare tuned ICE to a 60 and say the 60 does not perform like the ICE. You could say the same thing about a NA 911 when you could/should have bought the 911TT. Of course the NA 911 is slow in comparison while the 911TT may not be exactly as fast but will most certainly give them a run for their money.
I can not put my finger on exactly what has happened but I have changed owning the Zero first and now MS. That's saying something if you believe in the old dog, new tricks thing.
Ting,
I continue to be a bit confused when you compare tuned ICE to a 60 and say the 60 does not perform like the ICE. You could say the same thing about a NA 911 when you could/should have bought the 911TT. Of course the NA 911 is slow in comparison while the 911TT may not be exactly as fast but will most certainly give them a run for their money.
I think that the Model S is revolutionary in the sense that it is the first electric car that drives like A CAR. 3 years ago, Tesla released the Roadster which drives like an electric car. The Roadster has all the traces of an ICE like the panel, the buttons, the gear shift, the key lock, etc. and the feel of an electric car with all the noise of the electric motor. The Model S was just created on the paper at that point. Fast forward 3 years, the Model S is here and has NO trace of the Roadster, complete touch screen interface, supercharging, spacious interior, Internet connection, remote diagnostics and software upgrade, quiet acceleration, no key entry, etc. If you think of it, Tesla has no prior experience in making car and it has produced the Model S within 3 years that won all the awards that there are. It's revolutionary. Not because it's green, but because it has features that no other luxury cars can have (see the partial list above). I dropped off my Model S for annual service and received a brand new Volvo SUV for replacement, I felt going back in time. And yes, the Volvo has many luxury items as JohnQ listed, but it still feels like a pig. The seat massage, the seat cooler, etc. are just lipstick on the pig. And these things are not difficult to add on, even after market. Tesla has correctly put its efforts into the fundamentals that change the way the car is perceived since 150 years. I find that revolutionary, not just the green aspect of the car. And with the green aspect of the car on top of the feature list, this is a car that no other car can compete for now. And best of all, this car is made in California with American labor AND it is profitable. I am waiting for the Model X to be released and I think that it will bring additional new great features that other cars don't have + some lipsticks that some old generation drivers wish.
boilerbots
Member
Let's all hope that the Model S doesn't depreciate like any of those cars on your list! Then I will be a happy owner 10 years from now.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
tomn,
Being flip here; in engineering parlance, you can not polish a turd
I just feel like an idiot having to have Elon do MS for me to finally see the nature of ICE. I'm glad someone had vision.
Being flip here; in engineering parlance, you can not polish a turd
I just feel like an idiot having to have Elon do MS for me to finally see the nature of ICE. I'm glad someone had vision.After having the car for almost three weeks and 2300 miles later I conclude the Model S is a great car. So I have to disagree with anyone who doesn't think it is. People see the car and are just amazed at the tech inside. The car is impressive in pretty much all aspects and these guys are new to making cars this is scary for the competitors.
Mayhemm
Model S P85+ "Lola"
Thank you for addressing this.
Just goes to show that nuclear still has a monumental PR problem.
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