My Latest Crazy Idea: Trade ICE for Used Leaf, Wait for Model 3

[igotzzoom]

I'm pretty decided I want a used Leaf, because from the amount I can get from selling my Sonata, I should be able to buy a Leaf for cash, and have about $1000-1500 left over. Plus, no obligation to fulfill a lease. When the Model 3 comes out, I can sell the Leaf without any strings attached.

 

[richkae]

There's already a junction box and conduit that's been run to the garage. I wouldn't be totally heartbroken if I lost the 110 outlets, and it was repurposed to a NEMA 14-50. Either that, or maybe a parallel conduit could be run alongside it. Might help save me some $$.

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I'm only seriously looking at '13 and newer Leaf models because of the 6.6kW charger. Would that require a 14-50?

6.6kW = 30 amps @ 220volts, so you'd need at least a 40amp breaker to get that.

 

[Tedkidd]

10 kw charger will need 50 amps. That's future proofed for Tesla (and if you decide to look at the Mercedes....)

I charge my Smart on 110. Very slow but my charger maxes at 3.3, so I've not been in a hurry to update. There are a fair number of charge points around, so if I need faster charging I can go to one of them.

30-40 miles to me is like saying 30 to 1000 miles in winter. 30 is no problem, 40 at 5f temperatures is very dangerous. I think the same is true for my friends with Leaf's.

The Mercedes seems to be selling terribly. It is imo hands down the best compliance car, and can sometimes be acquired for under $300 a month lease, very little down, because of the sales incompetence. Range is huge and charging is at 50 amps, which means you'll get home with fair range and after an hour, be nearly full if you want to go out again.

Because Chevy and Nissan have also done a terrible job with their sales force and have done nothing to create a secondary market for used cars, the cars off lease have poor demand and high supply. These cars are a good opportunity for EV enthusiasts as they are $35k cars with usually under 25k miles available for under $12k. Nissan is offering leaseholders a $7000 bonus for buying out their leases in an attempt to manage this.

On the flip side is value in 2-3 years is uncertain. If you pay $12 and its worth $3, you could have been driving the Mercedes.

 

[Drucifer]

I wouldn't get overly married to the idea of 14-50 if your panel can't make room for the 50 amps. Even if you get 40 or 20, you would be fine. I am currently using the Voltec (not recommended) charger that is used for the Volt for the Model S. It is a 16 Amp (3.3 kW) charger on a 20 amp circuit. It adds about 10 miles to Model S (or Volt for that matter) per hour plugged in. My wife is driving the Volt for her 24 mile commute and I am driving Model S about 40 miles, and we can still get both cars charged overnight. Whoever gets home first charges until time for bed and then we switch cars. Occasionally, the Tesla doesn't get back to 80% (my preferred max daily charge), but since it could go 3 days without charging before it would be an issue, no worries there.

I will be putting in a 14-50 when I get a chance, though, with having 2 plug-in vehicles here and 1 that resides elsewhere. The point is that with a 20 amp circuit and a 3.3 EVSE, you can still charge a Leaf from zero to full overnight (say 10-11 hours), and still have enough capability to support Model S or Model 3 in a few years when you get that.

 

[abasile]

Buying a used LEAF is a great idea as long as your range requirements are low and you are prepared to lose capacity/range over time. Pre-2015 LEAFs generally have defective battery chemistry in that they degrade too quickly in warm temperatures, including at the SoCal coast. If you lose enough capacity there's the possibility of getting a new battery under warranty. (My "Mountain LEAF" doesn't experience as much heat as those at the coast, so I'm stuck with the original battery, currently down ~22%, unless/until I choose to replace it.)

I like your thinking as to having more freedom buying used as opposed to leasing.

 

[Drucifer]

Pre-2015 LEAFs generally have defective battery chemistry in that they degrade too quickly in warm temperatures,

Actually pre 2013 batteries are problematic. In 2013, the Nissan Leaf battery chemistry changed to the "lizard" battery technology. It is well documented - Google it.

 

[jerry33]

Actually pre 2013 batteries are problematic. In 2013, the Nissan Leaf battery chemistry changed to the "lizard" battery technology. It is well documented.

Provided it actually works as advertised. I don't really trust a company that has to be sued before they will honour their warranty.

 

[Drucifer]

Provided it actually works as advertised. I don't really trust a company that has to be sued before they will honour their warranty.

Agree that the history on this is pretty bad - both the battery and Nissan's response to it. I have had good results in a moderate climate. YMMV.

 

[igotzzoom]

On the flip side is value in 2-3 years is uncertain. If you pay $12 and its worth $3, you could have been driving the Mercedes.

I'm predicting after 2.5-3 years, a Leaf purchased today for about $13,000 might be worth $6000-7500. I'm OK with that. I'm hoping the biggest depreciation hit has already taken place. Typically, the drop-off is steepest in the first 3 years.

 

[Drucifer]

I'm predicting after 2.5-3 years, a Leaf purchased today for about $13,000 might be worth $6000-7500. I'm OK with that. I'm hoping the biggest depreciation hit has already taken place. Typically, the drop-off is steepest in the first 3 years.

As long as it holds bars, it should totally be worth $6k. At that price for a 6 year old Leaf, it would make a great car for a high school student or a great urban runabout. It should especially hold value if the price of gas goes up.

 

[abasile]

Actually pre 2013 batteries are problematic. In 2013, the Nissan Leaf battery chemistry changed to the "lizard" battery technology. It is well documented - Google it.

Actually, the "lizard" chemistry is associated with the 2015 MY, though some of the 2014s might have also gotten the (hopefully) improved chemistry. 2013 LEAF owners in hot climates have reported capacity loss similar to what 2011 owners were experiencing a couple of years ago. That said, a LEAF with capacity loss can still be a very useful vehicle, for the right use cases.

 

[igotzzoom]

Well, I think I'm going to pass on the Leaf for now, but I did actually dip my pinky toe into the world of EVs (broadly defined). I just got a second-hand Prodeco Phantom X2 e-Bike off Craigslist. There is an issue with the motor, but I got a pretty smokin' deal on it (or so I thought) at $600. They're between $1,500 to $1,900 new. If I'm feeling ambitious enough, I may even ride it into my office about 10 miles away!