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My loaner gave me the itch for an upgrade

mackgoo

Member
Oct 18, 2014
186
21
SoCal
Personally I think we're a spoiled lot. We complain about the most mindless things. I dropped of my car for tire rotation and they gave me a loaner. It has ACC. Man now I want to get a new car. That just adds another grin to the Tesla grin.
I understand Auto Pilot hasn't come out yet and yes many cars were sold with this feature but the fact is it will come out and it will just raise the level of the Tesla grin. I guess it takes a special person who understands the "eco system" to truly appreciate these cars.
 
Personally I think we're a spoiled lot. We complain about the most mindless things. I dropped of my car for tire rotation and they gave me a loaner. It has ACC. Man now I want to get a new car. That just adds another grin to the Tesla grin.
I understand Auto Pilot hasn't come out yet and yes many cars were sold with this feature but the fact is it will come out and it will just raise the level of the Tesla grin. I guess it takes a special person who understands the "eco system" to truly appreciate these cars.

A spoiled lot you say! Well I never. I will have my lawyers writing up a suit against your slanderous behavior as soon as my yacht pulls into Monte Carlo
 

tstafford

Active Member
Jul 4, 2015
1,039
257
Nashville, TN
Personally I think we're a spoiled lot. We complain about the most mindless things. I dropped of my car for tire rotation and they gave me a loaner. It has ACC. Man now I want to get a new car. That just adds another grin to the Tesla grin.
I understand Auto Pilot hasn't come out yet and yes many cars were sold with this feature but the fact is it will come out and it will just raise the level of the Tesla grin. I guess it takes a special person who understands the "eco system" to truly appreciate these cars.

Funny you say that. I was thinking something sort of similar. While I can understand the frustration around full AP not being out yet, I'm enjoying the anticipation of new features and add-ons to an already cool car. It will have that new car feeling again with AP and then shortly (in Tesla time) again with ludicrous upgrade.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,042
7,301
Snohomish, WA
I definitely agree that there are a bunch of us that are a spoiled lot.

Heck one person was so obsessive every year he would get a new Xpel ultimate protection for it. I can't even imagine how much the environment suffers because of him. Probably throws food away that doesn't look just right.

With that being said I do think there are so complaints that are justified.

Auto Pilot was something people PAID for with their money. Sure we did so knowing it was going to be a little bit before release. But, when little bit turns into 8+ months I can understand the frustration. It's also because we paid for something we don't really know will even work that well. So there is that underlining concern.

The entire P85D was REALLY misleading. I'm sorry, but Tesla misled their customers and weren't honest about it's actual performance. Some of this was just an honest mistake on Tesla's part, but having those complaints is a feedback mechanism for Tesla to be more careful. It helps them understand the market demands across the globe, and not just in the US. Just look at the number of sales and the growth in sales of Electric cars in Europe. It's hugely important for Tesla to understand the european market and what the european market expects.

For me I don't really have any complaints like that. Most of my complaints are of the normal car guy type. Where I poke fun at the ineptness of the blindspot monitoring system for example.

My feeling summed up after driving the 70D for a couple months is they made a brilliant car, but not quite the right car.

It needs to be smaller
It needs to be MASSIVELY RELIABLE.
It needs to be simpler. No weird door handles that burn your hands in 100 degree weather.
It needs to be resistant to dents, or have some self healing capability
It needs to figure out when it needs a reboot and reboot itself.

Because the drive itself is so amazing.

Don't get me wrong I love this car, but the Model 3 is going to be insane. If Tesla can keep everything together till then.
 
I definitely agree that there are a bunch of us that are a spoiled lot.

Heck one person was so obsessive every year he would get a new Xpel ultimate protection for it. I can't even imagine how much the environment suffers because of him. Probably throws food away that doesn't look just right.

With that being said I do think there are so complaints that are justified.

Auto Pilot was something people PAID for with their money. Sure we did so knowing it was going to be a little bit before release. But, when little bit turns into 8+ months I can understand the frustration. It's also because we paid for something we don't really know will even work that well. So there is that underlining concern.

The entire P85D was REALLY misleading. I'm sorry, but Tesla misled their customers and weren't honest about it's actual performance. Some of this was just an honest mistake on Tesla's part, but having those complaints is a feedback mechanism for Tesla to be more careful. It helps them understand the market demands across the globe, and not just in the US. Just look at the number of sales and the growth in sales of Electric cars in Europe. It's hugely important for Tesla to understand the european market and what the european market expects.

For me I don't really have any complaints like that. Most of my complaints are of the normal car guy type. Where I poke fun at the ineptness of the blindspot monitoring system for example.

My feeling summed up after driving the 70D for a couple months is they made a brilliant car, but not quite the right car.

It needs to be smaller
It needs to be MASSIVELY RELIABLE.
It needs to be simpler. No weird door handles that burn your hands in 100 degree weather.
It needs to be resistant to dents, or have some self healing capability
It needs to figure out when it needs a reboot and reboot itself.

Because the drive itself is so amazing.

Don't get me wrong I love this car, but the Model 3 is going to be insane. If Tesla can keep everything together till then.

70D is a fabulous car, considering that there is no EV like it.
But yes, if you are willing to give up the "EV" part of things, there are plenty of cars better than it in that price range.
And AutoPilot delays are also frustrating.

That said, some people will complain no matter what!
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
6,042
7,301
Snohomish, WA
Still baffled as to why people are angry that the P85D performs better than advertised (3.2 0-60 mph advertised, 3.1 0-60 mph actual after software update).[/COLOR]

It comes down how 0-60 is measured in different parts of the world. Most of the complaints aren't from the owners in the States, but owners is Europe where 0-60 is measured from a standstill. If you do that with the P85D it comes out to 3.5 seconds or so. The other area where I feel as if Tesla is still misleading is how long this power is actually good for. They don't clearly state how long this power is good for, and they still don't state it.
 

eloder

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,214
1,427
Ohio, USA
The other area where I feel as if Tesla is still misleading is how long this power is actually good for. They don't clearly state how long this power is good for, and they still don't state it.

I've never once seen advertisements/listings for gas cars talk about the narrow rpm range in which horsepower is at maximum, either. No gas car sees maximum horsepower applied when an engine is at 1000 rpm. It seems like industry standard that it's up to the customer to know that ICEs, diesel, hybrid powertrains, and fully electrified powertrains all behave differently from one another.

An educated buyer would realize that 691 "real" horsepower in an EV is going to behave extremely different than 691 of horsepower in an ICE or a diesel engine. For example, the fact that electrified drivetrains have significantly enhanced acceleration at low speeds versus ICEs. I don't see ICE buyers complain about how their acceleration is worse than EVs of similar horsepower at low speeds--why are EV buyers, in this case, less educated than ICE buyers? By the logic of these few owners, semis are the fastest acceleration vehicles on the planet because they have the greatest horsepower to weight measurement of any vehicle out there.

Companies cannot hold a consumer's hand through everything--if so, every product in a grocery store would come with an agreement hundreds of pages long so that you can know every single aspect of the product, should it ever come up. It's no different than someone who buys an LTE-enabled smartphone, and expects LTE wavelengths to penetrate as far inside buildings the EVDO wavelengths. "But I thought LTE was better in every single way than 3g!"--sorry, customer, that extremely technical but tiny detail that rarely matters because wifi is ubiquitous indoors for data use wasn't covered, and we aren't going to compensate you for your ignorance of the technology in this matter.

The owners are definitely wrong in this matter. All P85Ds hit advertised performance speeds in the manner Tesla tested it. All P85Ds have the necessary horsepower on their motors, even if the two separate motors hit max power at different parts of the acceleration curve (welcome to EVs!). Tesla advertised properly; a few ignorant owners did not do their research properly. It's not Tesla's fault nor do they owe these owners a single dime.
 

brucet999

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
2,726
1,611
Huntington Beach, CA
It comes down how 0-60 is measured in different parts of the world. Most of the complaints aren't from the owners in the States, but owners is Europe where 0-60 is measured from a standstill. If you do that with the P85D it comes out to 3.5 seconds or so. The other area where I feel as if Tesla is still misleading is how long this power is actually good for. They don't clearly state how long this power is good for, and they still don't state it.

Will you explain further for us non-drag racers? When I had a launch demo that seemed to send my eyeballs to the back of my head, it was from a dead stop. Is that not how 3.2 seconds 0-60 was measured? Isn't that how all drag races are done?
 

rjcbox

Member
Sep 4, 2013
543
191
PA, USA
It comes down how 0-60 is measured in different parts of the world. Most of the complaints aren't from the owners in the States, but owners is Europe where 0-60 is measured from a standstill. If you do that with the P85D it comes out to 3.5 seconds or so. The other area where I feel as if Tesla is still misleading is how long this power is actually good for. They don't clearly state how long this power is good for, and they still don't state it.

Doesn't the "0" in "0-60" always mean 0mph/standstill??
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
11,359
6,519
Will you explain further for us non-drag racers? When I had a launch demo that seemed to send my eyeballs to the back of my head, it was from a dead stop. Is that not how 3.2 seconds 0-60 was measured? Isn't that how all drag races are done?

Doesn't the "0" in "0-60" always mean 0mph/standstill??
This may be somewhat confusing. The number is still measured with a car that starts at a standstill (as opposed to "street start" 5-60mph numbers, which are measured with the car starting at a roll).
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-does-c-d-test-cars-acceleration-and-braking-page-2

However, in the USA, the car magazines typically subtract the time it takes to move the first 1 foot (this is ~0.3 seconds) from all their acceleration numbers (this includes 0-60 and 1/4 mile, as well as the less common 0-30). This is to match how drag strip staging beams work (they don't start the clock until the car has moved roughly 1 foot). Technically it is a 0-60 number with 1 foot rollout.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-importance-of-rollout

When you see 0-60 numbers advertised by US automakers, they typically use numbers that have 1 foot rollout subtracted. European and Japanese automakers likely do not do so.
 
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Personally I think we're a spoiled lot. We complain about the most mindless things. I dropped of my car for tire rotation and they gave me a loaner. It has ACC. Man now I want to get a new car. That just adds another grin to the Tesla grin.
I understand Auto Pilot hasn't come out yet and yes many cars were sold with this feature but the fact is it will come out and it will just raise the level of the Tesla grin. I guess it takes a special person who understands the "eco system" to truly appreciate these cars.
To get this thread back on topic :)

I might be in the minority but I wanted to spend 65k on a Tesla and had the option to get a CPO with most options and a bigger battery or new 60 kWh with AP. I picked the route of the 60 w/ AP. To me, I could get more benefits out of AP given how much highway travel I do. Sure, I was buying some futures but that was the risk I was willing to take.

My depreciation curve is also going to be steeper than a cpo 2012 or 2013 but feel AP is a game changer for how I will be using the vehicle.
 

rjcbox

Member
Sep 4, 2013
543
191
PA, USA
This may be somewhat confusing. The number is still measured with a car that starts at a standstill (as opposed to "street start" 5-60mph numbers, which are measured with the car starting at a roll).
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-does-c-d-test-cars-acceleration-and-braking-page-2

However, in the USA, the car magazines typically subtract the time it takes to move the first 1 foot (this is ~0.3 seconds) from all their acceleration numbers (this includes 0-60 and 1/4 mile, as well as the less common 0-30). This is to match how drag strip staging beams work (they don't start the clock until the car has moved roughly 1 foot). Technically it is a 0-60 number with 1 foot rollout.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-importance-of-rollout

When you see 0-60 numbers advertised by US automakers, they typically use numbers that have 1 foot rollout subtracted. European and Japanese automakers likely do not do so.

Interesting...appreciate your explanation
 

SmartElectric

Active Member
Jul 9, 2014
2,527
2,408
Toronto,Canada
I wanted to spend 65k on a Tesla and had the option to get a CPO with most options and a bigger battery or new 60 kWh with AP. I picked the route of the 60 w/ AP.

Yeah, I went the other way. I chose the CPO 85 over the new 70 due to the extra winter range here in Ontario Canada. We just could not do our round trips in a 70 in the winter due to the judicious use of heating.

We had 20 days colder than -10C in the 2014 winter and one extreme night near -30C, which is getting to the point where my Smart ED battery needed to be warmed to keep the electrolyte from freezing.

Ref:
2013–14 North American cold wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, for me, it was all about kWh of storage...


To note : Our CPO 85 is a awesome car! Looks like new and runs like a train, amazing car, best we've ever owned. It has 62,000 km on it now, added almost 5000 km in two months.
 

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