My Model 3 is a death trap!

[nowtleft]

Moved from AP1 Model S to PM3 in March. This week it has done the following on TACC (NOT AP!) so I was steering.
1. As I was steering through a narrowish gap next to a lorry turning right the car slammed on from 50 to 20 which is the point I put my foot down. If there had been someone behind there would have been an accident.
2. Going up a blind summit with no knowledge of whether anything is coming the other way I pulled out to pass a cyclist (safely). As I got along side the car slammed on - again nothing behind.

I have written to Tesla and asked for my FSD to be refunded (Id want the park and lane change leaving as that is a must have on a car this price.

I am fed up of Musk ignoring phantom braking like a kid in the schoolyard - say it enough it will be true!

Love Tesla and my car but this sort of issue is getting WORSE each update and is worse than AP1!

 

[Tam]

Moved from AP1 Model S to PM3 in March. This week it has done the following on TACC (NOT AP!) so I was steering.
1. As I was steering through a narrowish gap next to a lorry turning right the car slammed on from 50 to 20 which is the point I put my foot down. If there had been someone behind there would have been an accident.
2. Going up a blind summit with no knowledge of whether anything is coming the other way I pulled out to pass a cyclist (safely). As I got along side the car slammed on - again nothing behind.

I have written to Tesla and asked for my FSD to be refunded (Id want the park and lane change leaving as that is a must have on a car this price.

I am fed up of Musk ignoring phantom braking like a kid in the schoolyard - say it enough it will be true!

Love Tesla and my car but this sort of issue is getting WORSE each update and is worse than AP1!

Phantom braking is among the current limitations for a foreseeable future, unless Tesla can do a real FSD.

I assume when the system is smart enough to drive without a driver then it should be smart enough to eliminate the phantom brakes.

One of the reasons that there's still a driver in Tesla FSD car is because using human driver to fix the phantom brakes is cheaper than having the machine to be smart enough to fix that problem for human.

 

[Puddles]

I too have noticed an increase in over-conservative braking due to pedestrians. While the software is in beta, we accept these risks if we use the associated features.

I’m not sure I would call it “phantom” braking in these cases as we have a good sense of what is causing it.

 

[powertoold]

Don't use AP on city streets (non-highway / freeway)

 

[Puddles]

Don't use AP on city streets (non-highway / freeway)

Don’t let @diplomat33 catch you saying that!

 

[diplomat33]

Don’t let @diplomat33 catch you saying that!

To be clear, it is perfectly fine to use AP on major state roads like State Rd 46 going N-S in this image.

These are not highways but they are not "city streets" either. They are outside the city limits and they have 2 lanes going both ways separated by a divider. And with the new traffic light control feature, AP can handle going straight through intersections. Of course, you should always pay attention, eyes on the road and hands on the wheel.

That is quite different from this:

These are city streets that you should NOT use AP on.

 

[DrtyJrze]

State 46 is a highway...

Do people not know that these state roads are considered highways?

 

[diplomat33]

State 46 is a highway...

Do people not know that these state roads are considered highways?

View attachment 561060

I drive on SR46 almost every day and I did not know that it is considered a highway. It's called a "state road". It has the designation SR. And while that section I showed is like a 2 lane divided highway, it also changes to a single lane non divided when you get further away from towns:

When I think of highways, I think of interstate roads that have the "I" designation, like I70.

 

[diplomat33]

On a side not, NOA only works on interstate highways, not "state highways" like SR46 even when it becomes a 2 lane divided highway. Maybe when Tesla releases "turning at intersections", they can enable NOA on state highways like SR46?

 

[DrtyJrze]

I’m agreeing diplomat, I don’t think of them as “Highways” either.

So practically, who cares if it’s a state road/highway/etc in everyday life? However technically I think the distinction is important when having conversations about where AP/FSD should be used and expected capabilities. That’s all.

 

[DrtyJrze]

On a side not, NOA only works on interstate highways, not "state highways" like SR46 even when it becomes a 2 lane divided highway. Maybe when Tesla releases "turning at intersections", they can enable NOA on state highways like SR46?

That works for me.

Only issue is that in its current state FSD doesn’t anticipate stupidity as well as a human. People turning in/out of shopping areas on state “highways” is an issue NOA doesn’t have to deal with on a real highway.

 

[MXLRplus]

We don't have a universal word for controlled-access divided highway. The next best thing would be Freeway even if they are toll roads.
Highways are not necessarily controlled access or divided.
The safest area to use AP/FSD is freeways with shoulders. Yes, it will hit a k-rail barrier when there is no shoulder. It reacts too slowly to avoid it.

 

[MXLRplus]

It's ironic how many people have negative comments about the GM Super Cruise system.
The two major faults they see:
1) It only works on 'freeways'.
2) It does not do automatic lane changing.

Yet my Tesla's operational status on uncontrolled access highways is weak, and the automatic lane changes were apparently programmed based on the average driving style of drivers with a blood alcohol content of 0.20% or higher. The user-requested lane changes system works great, but it's own logic is bizarre.

 

[diplomat33]

It's ironic how many people have negative comments about the GM Super Cruise system.
The two major faults they see:
1) It only works on 'freeways'.
2) It does not do automatic lane changing.

Yet my Tesla's operational status on uncontrolled access highways is weak, and the automatic lane changes were apparently programmed based on the average driving style of drivers with a blood alcohol content of 0.20% or higher.

I've never used Supercruise but from what I've seen and read, it seems like an excellent driver assist system. Yes, it is more limited than NOA, but it seems very reliable in what it can do and it is hands-free which AP/NOA are not.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Don't use AP on city streets (non-highway / freeway)

The manual agrees with you. Obviously, people opting in and "testing" stop sign and stop light functionality have to do it on city streets, but it's super clear that's very very much in beta.

That said, phantom braking could also lead to an accident on a freeway, hence need to keep aware. Do we have any documented cases of this happening? I assume it has with how often it happens.

 

[DrtyJrze]

I've never used Supercruise but from what I've seen and read, it seems like an excellent driver assist system. Yes, it is more limited than NOA, but it seems very reliable in what it can do and it is hands-free which AP/NOA are not.

IMO, Tesla is SUPER cautious about autonomy because there is clearly a target on its back out there by all of the big money in ICE.

If a Tesla crashes for whatever reason it’s on the news, but if a GM cruise car crashes I doubt we will even hear about it (just like the regular huge recalls). So GM can afford to activate more autonomous features early, there’s less risk.

It sucks for us, but I get it.

 

[diplomat33]

The manual agrees with you. Obviously, people opting in and "testing" stop sign and stop light functionality have to do it on city streets, but it's super clear that's very very much in beta.

You don't have to be on city streets to test the traffic light control feature. There are traffic lights on state roads that are technically considered highways. So you can have traffic lights on roads that are not considered "city streets".

 

[Twiglett]

I love TMC.
The OP states he was using TACC not AP and as he was doing 50mph, so we can assume not on city streets - but it only takes three posts before AP is mentioned and it degenerates into a rehash of the over discussed where and when to use AP.
Obviously the chill pill has not been taken this morning.

 

[powertoold]

I love TMC.
The OP states he was using TACC not AP and as he was doing 50mph, so we can assume not on city streets - but it only takes three posts before AP is mentioned and it degenerates into a rehash of the over discussed where and when to use AP.
Obviously the chill pill has not been taken this morning.

OP mentions a cyclist, so I'm assuming it's not a restricted highway. I personally wouldn't use (vs test) AP on any road with traffic controls.

 

[Puddles]

I love TMC.
The OP states he was using TACC not AP and as he was doing 50mph, so we can assume not on city streets - but it only takes three posts before AP is mentioned and it degenerates into a rehash of the over discussed where and when to use AP.
Obviously the chill pill has not been taken this morning.

Hah! I am the third poster. I am proud of my ability to veer swiftly off topic, taking everyone down with me.

But I don't remember mentioning AP. I'm worried about the effect this will have on my reputation.