My Model S: I've had it!

[ErnieG]

I've talked to people and they advise against it. At certain times of the year I have full sun on the roof for at least a chunk of the day. There's a second problem, It would never pay for itself. I'd rather encourage our electrical co to go renewable. A friend of mine put up a 28KW or really large system on his house. Maybe it was 20KW and $28,000. He claims he charges his car for free. I explain, no you prepaid $28,000 to charge your car. So that is a key point, do the math. If I were in my 30s and had a sufficient employment radius, in other words close to a large employment center, where I could buy and plant myself for decades, sure. I'm retired now. Frankly, I am not certain wind wouldn't be the better alternative. Wind blows at night and when it rains.

When you put solar on your house you should look at the expense as a tax free municipal bond since the money you are saving from your electric bill is after tax money. With the 30% federal tax credit your friend paid $19,600, he probably is saving between $125 and $200 a month on his electric bills. His after tax return on investment is between 8% and 12%. I am adding 5.5KW to my existing Solar system and in here in Northern California where a KW runs between 19 and 50 cents my after tax rate of return will be 9%. Remember in most cases the amount you spend on the solar system increases the value of your by approximately the amount you pay for the system.

Ernie

 

[wcorey]

When you put solar on your house you should look at the expense as a tax free municipal bond since the money you are saving from your electric bill is after tax money. With the 30% federal tax credit your friend paid $19,600, he probably is saving between $125 and $200 a month on his electric bills. His after tax return on investment is between 8% and 12%. I am adding 5.5KW to my existing Solar system and in here in Northern California where a KW runs between 19 and 50 cents my after tax rate of return will be 9%. Remember in most cases the amount you spend on the solar system increases the value of your by approximately the amount you pay for the system.

Ernie

Just running the numbers there Ernie, it would take him, best case, 8 years to make up even $19,600. There's a good chance neither he nor I will be alive in 8 yrs. As I said, if I was in my 30's it would be a no brainer, not now.

 

[ErnieG]

Just running the numbers there Ernie, it would take him, best case, 8 years to make up even $19,600. There's a good chance neither he nor I will be alive in 8 yrs. As I said, if I was in my 30's it would be a no brainer, not now.

When I went through the analysis process, I quickly determined that using the payback scenario was improper given that my cost for the solar system was in essence zero after adding value to the house equivalent to the cost of the system. Mind you I did this in 2004 and I knew I had no plans in selling my house nor do I at age 77 have any plans in the future.

After trying to look at methods to the examine the solar system cost, bypassing the "Its good for Global Warming sales pitch", I came to the conclusion that I would look at the financial rewards of my solar system as an after tax benefit similar to a tax free municipal bond. After discussing it with a couple financial analysts over the years I feel that it is the most honest method to make a financial decision concerning installing a PV Solar system.
The payback system neglects the Net Present Value aspect of the investment where the Tax Free Muni is a rather consistent with current financial analysts approach to investments.
BWTFDIK I'm just a dumb pilot<G>

Ernie

 

[wcorey]

BWTFDIK I'm just a dumb pilot<G>

Me too!

 

[trident]

Like the post, encouraging even with the AP problems. I too enjoy driving the car more than any other I have ever owned and that includes the 2019 Corvette ZR1 which I sold.

I am going to rescind my post. Almost one year since purchasing FSD and what to show for it? I purchased a 2017 Mercedes SL65 and it has autopilot, reads highway speed signs. Not much different than the Tesla, except putting in the gas. I don't ever see full FSD within the next couple of years. Just a wasted $2500.00.

 

[FlatSix911]

Hang in there... 2020 may be your year.

 

[Zer0t]

View attachment 241746

It's a trap!!

You knew it was a trap since you know the OP!

I'm new here so he totally had me fooled.

 

[wcorey]

I am going to rescind my post. Almost one year since purchasing FSD and what to show for it? I purchased a 2017 Mercedes SL65 and it has autopilot, reads highway speed signs. Not much different than the Tesla, except putting in the gas. I don't ever see full FSD within the next couple of years. Just a wasted $2500.00.

OK, NO! There is a huge difference. Perhaps it means little to nothing to you but your 2017 Mercedes will never be more than it is right now, or last week, or back in 2017. That's it. With the Teslas we don't know what the Nov and Dec 'Sprints" are so, for all we know, once people get the 2019.48.x.y it will have city NoA. Musk told (as CEO) a room full of institutional investors 2020 would usher in the year of the RoboTaxi and Tesla was putting over a million model 3s in service. Whether we see FSD in the next few months or not is irrelevant to this discussion. Your old Tesla will evolve, the SL65 won't.

 

[Chaserr]

That can be a good thing. His Mercedes will never have the gas tank capacity or horsepower OTA downgraded.

 

[Max*]

Musk told (as CEO) a room full of institutional investors 2020 would usher in the year of the RoboTaxi and Tesla was putting over a million model 3s in service.

Is that meant as humor?

Musk has said a lot of things (as CEO), his predictions/deadlines are very often wrong.

 

[wcorey]

Is that meant as humor?

Musk has said a lot of things (as CEO), his predictions/deadlines are very often wrong.

No Max, Not humor. We have pretty strong corporate liability laws which the SEC, in part, regulates. Musk has had his first and, likely, last warning. Materially misrepresenting your product, as officer of a public company has huge ramifications. This isn't Russia, as much as there are some that wish it to be. Oligarchs don't rule here.
It's one thing if you put out a few hundred or thousand Ss and Xs it's another when there are hundreds of thousands of Model 3s many bought on the promise of FSD, by virtue of that's what was paid for in advance.

The reality of it is, they actually are very close. There is not much left to 'invent'. They just have to marry the disparate technologies. If you read the thread, I am actually arguing that we may well see the beta of FSD in the coming, count on one hand, months. Reference to misleading institutional investors was by way of the costs for misrepresenting the product are incredibly high. He can't stand on a stage an bullshit the country's main investment firms just for shits and giggles.

What happened last Oct 23? Was it simply the shorts decided they must cover now? Was it an announcement? Was it a leak?

 

[Chaserr]

He's almost always off by many years, but he is usualy right eventually. FSD was "3 months definitely" from 2017 or whenever he said that. FSD is probably going to happen next year, but FSD as Tesla defines it is nearly done now several years later - it's a far cry from robotaxis. Robotaxis will be a completely different product and probably won't be released for years after FSD is done.

 

[trident]

What good is FSD if your passenger is uneasy with the technology. I have to turn everything off when my wife is in the car. My neighbor with a Model 3, his wife will not use it. I don't use it even in the MB with my wife. I haven't been a pax when someone else is driving, but I think I would be uneasy. What is the consensus among members? What does your spouses say?

 

[Max*]

No Max, Not humor. We have pretty strong corporate liability laws which the SEC, in part, regulates. Musk has had his first and, likely, last warning. Materially misrepresenting your product, as officer of a public company has huge ramifications. This isn't Russia, as much as there are some that wish it to be. Oligarchs don't rule here.
It's one thing if you put out a few hundred or thousand Ss and Xs it's another when there are hundreds of thousands of Model 3s many bought on the promise of FSD, by virtue of that's what was paid for in advance.

The reality of it is, they actually are very close. There is not much left to 'invent'. They just have to marry the disparate technologies. If you read the thread, I am actually arguing that we may well see the beta of FSD in the coming, count on one hand, months. Reference to misleading institutional investors was by way of the costs for misrepresenting the product are incredibly high. He can't stand on a stage an bullshit the country's main investment firms just for shits and giggles.

What happened last Oct 23? Was it simply the shorts decided they must cover now? Was it an announcement? Was it a leak?

Wow.... just wow... I... I don't even know where to start.

 

[Max*]

He's almost always off by many years, but he is usualy right eventually.

I'm still waiting for battery swap, solar panels on all Tesla superchargers, FSD with v2 hardware, Autopilot V1 to be hands free on-ramp to off-ramp, 692HP for the P85D, P100D Loaners in the service centers, the cross country "driver less" trip, taking Tesla private, etc. etc.

I agree, a lot of what he promises on is just deadline issues (he's off by years), but he's made more than a handful of promises/statements that turned out to be flat out lies.

 

[Chaserr]

What good is FSD if your passenger is uneasy with the technology. I have to turn everything off when my wife is in the car. My neighbor with a Model 3, his wife will not use it. I don't use it even in the MB with my wife. I haven't been a pax when someone else is driving, but I think I would be uneasy. What is the consensus among members? What does your spouses say?

My spouse doesn't like the idea of AP but that's OK with me since it means I get to keep my car longer. I want to keep this thing forever if I can! She seems to have taken to the newest AP; we had a loaner a month ago and it was by far the smoothest AP experience for me and might have changed her mind on the technology. I love getting my AP experiences in random intervals like that, it's noticeably better every time.

 

[wcorey]

He's almost always off by many years, but he is usualy right eventually. FSD was "3 months definitely" from 2017 or whenever he said that. FSD is probably going to happen next year, but FSD as Tesla defines it is nearly done now several years later - it's a far cry from robotaxis. Robotaxis will be a completely different product and probably won't be released for years after FSD is done.

We can all pontificate on what Tesla will do and play name the date lotto. Did you watch the Investor Day video? No, any Model 3 owner can turn (selectively) add their car into the fleet. Go to work by 8, add your car until 5 when it comes to pick you up. That's irrelevant. What he said as a private company is irrelevant. What he says now IS relevant. The SEC has already spanked him once. I suspect next time it'll be Tesla w/o Musk or delisted.

 

[Chaserr]

I suspect next time it'll be Tesla w/o Musk or delisted.

Neither is good for the company. What he should do is hire someone like SpaceX's Gwen to run the comapny day to day and throttle his enthusiasm to make him stick to reality (mostly).

 

[ohmman]

I agree, a lot of what he promises on is just deadline issues (he's off by years), but he's made more than a handful of promises/statements that turned out to be flat out lies.

I agree with your assessment overall, but whether they're "lies" is hard to say for sure. Lies imply intent to deceive, and for all we know, they really thought swap or solar canopies or whatever were going to be a reality. Swap seems pretty transparently a scheme to me, but I could be wrong. So I'd say that some of these statements were merely wrong, and not so much "lies."

Of course, that's how liars get away with being liars.

 

[ICUDoc]

how did you get that Speedometer on the screen

Oh, my sweet summer child....