My Painted CPO

[ecarfan]

I agree 100% on this. I've bought CPO BMW, MB and Porsche and many of them site unseen. I've never had any experiences that come close to what is being discussed in several threads here. CPO from a premium brand should be extremely close to a new car experience. It's been that for me every time.

Not for me. I once bought a CPO Porsche that had just came off lease and the dealership would not share the service records with me. Before I signed for the car they said they would give me copies of the records, but they never did. It annoyed me but I didn't pursue it. Really loved the car. And then I got a Model S and fell out of love with Porsche, sold the Porsche and bought a Roadster!

 

[3mp_kwh]

Here's a cheap gauge that worked:
Portable Digital Thickness Gauge 80mil Range Paint Enamel Plastic Meter Allsun | eBay

We can check at TMC Connect (East), but I would bet that the robotic painted metallic cars have an almost uniform .2mm thickness. The mil setting can break it down further.

My take away is any none salvaged Model S is qualified for CPO.

Cars can get salvaged without insurance claims, and fed into a "clean Carfax = no accidents" program.

 

[taurusking]

You are right...I bought an ICE car from a dealer and the car fax was clean..When I was about to change the temporary license plates to the new ones I received from DMV I noticed a large dent which was covered by the front license plate. Luckily the paint was intact. When I contacted the dealer..they said they did not know about it as well.

I am very surprised Tesla is taking slack on quality issues like this.

 

[Cyclone]

I am very surprised Tesla is taking slack on quality issues like this.

I cannot tell if you are defending Tesla saying we shouldn't be complaining about quality issues like this, or if you are saying Tesla is slack from us because it is allowing such quality issues that shouldn't be happening? Could you please elaborate/clarify? Thanks.

 

[taurusking]

I cannot tell if you are defending Tesla saying we shouldn't be complaining about quality issues like this, or if you are saying Tesla is slack from us because it is allowing such quality issues that shouldn't be happening? Could you please elaborate/clarify? Thanks.

I don't think I am defending Tesla on this issue.

I always put myself in other's shoes when they have issues.

Also an off shoot from this topic where I don't agree with Tesla is their policy on ESA and deductible requirement

If you remember I did post on your thread when you had issues with your CPO car. Correct me if I am wrong.

Tesla should start enforcing highest quality when selling CPO cars.

Also Tesla should do all of this before bringing Model X to the mass market.

 

[Cyclone]

I don't think I am defending Tesla on this issue.

I always put myself in other's shoes when they have issues.

Also an off shoot from this topic where I don't agree with Tesla is their policy on ESA and deductible requirement

If you remember I did post on your thread when you had issues with your CPO car. Correct me if I am wrong.

Tesla should start enforcing highest quality when selling CPO cars.

Also Tesla should do all of this before bringing Model X to the mass market.

I honestly can't recall if you did on my thread. I try to do the same and not make this adversarial against Tesla, but it's hard to have deal with these repairs and costs on a car advertised as like-new. I am not looking for a buyback in my case, but I can certainly understand why the Op would want his bought back. Poor reconditioning of a vehicle should not be tolerated and, as you say, Tesla should enforce the highest quality when selling CPO cars (even if it sometimes [the exception, not the rule] means that is done after delivery).

I think we are on the same page and I do apologize if I worded too strongly above as "defending" may be too agreessive in describing a potential view of Tesla's side of this.

 

[MsElectric]

I honestly can't recall if you did on my thread. I try to do the same and not make this adversarial against Tesla, but it's hard to have deal with these repairs and costs on a car advertised as like-new. I am not looking for a buyback in my case, but I can certainly understand why the Op would want his bought back. Poor reconditioning of a vehicle should not be tolerated and, as you say, Tesla should enforce the highest quality when selling CPO cars (even if it sometimes [the exception, not the rule] means that is done after delivery).

I think we are on the same page and I do apologize if I worded too strongly above as "defending" may be too agreessive in describing a potential view of Tesla's side of this.

You mentioned that someone from Tesla has reached out to you about your CPO car that you found out after you bought had been poorly painted prior to your purchase. Did they reach out to you with a reasonable resolution or did you end up having to eat the cost of fixing the paint?

 

[Cyclone]

You mentioned that someone from Tesla has reached out to you about your CPO car that you found out after you bought had been poorly painted prior to your purchase. Did they reach out to you with a reasonable resolution or did you end up having to eat the cost of fixing the paint?

I had to eat the cost of fixing the paint. They did however replace my rotors and calipers and detailed the car (this also getting out the black marks in the headliner).

 

[MsElectric]

I had to eat the cost of fixing the paint. They did however replace my rotors and calipers and detailed the car (this also getting out the black marks in the headliner).

On the plus side it seems your car is currently the best it has ever been while under your ownership

Also, if you decide to sell it, you can honestly claim that it is "better than CPO" :tongue:

Did you push them on the paint or at least ask them to cover half of the cost since it was due to a bad paint job before you bought the car? Perhaps you can at the least have them issue you a credit that you can use towards service visits in the amount you paid to have the paint fixed up or is it pretty much done and water under the bridge at this point?

 

[davidc18]

Cyclones experience totally turned me off looking for a CPO for our second car.

 

[MsElectric]

Cyclones experience totally turned me off looking for a CPO for our second car.

I still don't think this is reason to write off the Tesla CPO program.

What Cyclone's unfortunate experience has revealed is that you should do your due diligence when you buy a CPO car as you would when buying any used car. I'd never buy a used car without taking it to a high end body shop for a pre purchase inspection. Most experienced paint shop people can tell you paint issues or accident damage with the car just by looking at the car...

Apart from doing a pre purchase inspection at a body shop, going over the car's service records/repair history paperwork, and of course going over the CarFax, I absolutely would buy a CPO car and if a friend or family member wanted to buy a CPO car I would not discourage them from buying one.

I would however discourage anyone from buying a CPO car sight unseen and without doing your due diligence on the car, especially after Cyclone's most unfortunate experience. It's to much of a risk IMHO.

My biggest issue with the Tesla CPO program is that they refuse to sell you an extended warranty when just about every other car manufacturer offers the ability to extend the warranty of a CPO car.

 

[Cyclone]

On the plus side it seems your car is currently the best it has ever been while under your ownership

Also, if you decide to sell it, you can honestly claim that it is "better than CPO" :tongue:

Did you push them on the paint or at least ask them to cover half of the cost since it was due to a bad paint job before you bought the car? Perhaps you can at the least have them issue you a credit that you can use towards service visits in the amount you paid to have the paint fixed up or is it pretty much done and water under the bridge at this point?

Tesla feels it wasn't a repaint from the previous owner, but something done by the detailed when prepping the car for clear bra. As such, their stance is that it is 100% my problem, regardless of if the hood and same side rear had to be repainted because of problems from the previous owner (but were done at Tesla's expense since I noted it in the delivery punch list).

It has definitely left a bad taste in my mouth and proving an offset on Tesla services would have been fine with me. That is actually why I did the retrofit of the folding mirrors in the hopes that they would goodwill that in exchange for me having to pay for the paint. That way, Tesla was only out a little bit in parts and gifting labor at their $150/hour labor rate. That was a no-go sadly. Maybe one day I'll see a credit on my credit card for that charge. That truly would have made me happy about the whole ordeal because it is where Tesla went "above and beyond". Otherwise, everything else done to my car was covered under warranty, so it could have been done from my buying the car off the street instead of from them.

 

[ev-now]

• Tesla does not allow you to extend the warranty. a 2015 Tesla CPO warranty ends in 2019 with no way to extend it beyond 4 years. A Mercedes CPO can have the warranty extended to 7 years.

While this may be true, that you can extend it to seven years, it starts at only 12 months (now with unlimited mileage) not 4 years ...
Don't get me wrong, I have serious concerns about the program - but not being able to extend a generous powertrain and initial CPO warranty are not concerns for me - YMMV of course.
It's delivering repaired/repainted vehicles and not standing behind them - that's a huge concern as it potentially have a massive impact on the value of the vehicle should you need to resell it (or indeed if it is subject to a major insurance claim).

 

[davidc18]

My expectations when the Tesla CPO program was announced was that it would be at least as good as the other high end CPO programs. At a minimum, I would expect the cars to NEVER have issues like Cyclones. The CPO program should take care of the "due diligence" for buyers. Thats why buyers are willing to pay a premium price for the CPO cars. It is clear that this is not happening in all cases, which makes the program not worth considering for our family. If it works for you great.

I still don't think this is reason to write off the Tesla CPO program.

What Cyclone's unfortunate experience has revealed is that you should do your due diligence when you buy a CPO car as you would when buying any used car. I'd never buy a used car without taking it to a high end body shop for a pre purchase inspection. Most experienced paint shop people can tell you paint issues or accident damage with the car just by looking at the car...

Apart from doing a pre purchase inspection at a body shop, going over the car's service records/repair history paperwork, and of course going over the CarFax, I absolutely would buy a CPO car and if a friend or family member wanted to buy a CPO car I would not discourage them from buying one.

I would however discourage anyone from buying a CPO car sight unseen and without doing your due diligence on the car, especially after Cyclone's most unfortunate experience. It's to much of a risk IMHO.

My biggest issue with the Tesla CPO program is that they refuse to sell you an extended warranty when just about every other car manufacturer offers the ability to extend the warranty of a CPO car.

 

[tstafford]

I still don't think this is reason to write off the Tesla CPO program.

What Cyclone's unfortunate experience has revealed is that you should do your due diligence when you buy a CPO car as you would when buying any used car. I'd never buy a used car without taking it to a high end body shop for a pre purchase inspection. Most experienced paint shop people can tell you paint issues or accident damage with the car just by looking at the car...

Apart from doing a pre purchase inspection at a body shop, going over the car's service records/repair history paperwork, and of course going over the CarFax, I absolutely would buy a CPO car and if a friend or family member wanted to buy a CPO car I would not discourage them from buying one.

I would however discourage anyone from buying a CPO car sight unseen and without doing your due diligence on the car, especially after Cyclone's most unfortunate experience. It's to much of a risk IMHO.

My biggest issue with the Tesla CPO program is that they refuse to sell you an extended warranty when just about every other car manufacturer offers the ability to extend the warranty of a CPO car.

Sorry, I don't agree with much of this except the part about extending the warranty.

A high end CPO car (MB, BMW, Porsche) shouldn't need to go to a body shop or have any PPI done. Part of the concept of CPO is to put the strength of the brand reputation behind the car - like you have with a new one. The "100+ point check" thing is supposed to mean something - I know it costs about $2K to CPO a Porsche. There is supposed to be value in both the inspection and warranty that comes with that.

Mistakes happen - I'm sure cars somehow slip thru the CPO process at the dealer and end up with issues. The problem here is that Tesla isn't standing behind it. No excuse for this. The clear bra position Tesla took is complete BS. If they aren't going to stand behind the paint problems they claim happened as a result of the clear bra they never should have included the car in the CPO program. They should have rejected it because it either currently had or in the past had a clear bra, offered the prior owner the option of having them auction it and moved on. Simple.

 

[Drucifer]

If they aren't going to stand behind the paint problems they claim happened as a result of the clear bra they never should have included the car in the CPO program. They should have rejected it because it either currently had or in the past had a clear bra, offered the prior owner the option of having them auction it and moved on. Simple.

Exactly, either they need to auction the cars that do not meet standard or be ready to pay the price for not auctioning off the less than stellar specimens. I don't think anyone is expecting a "New" car for a CPO, but people are expecting a car that hasn't had significant levels of rework, or rework done poorly.

For Mercedes, BMW etc, only about 1/3 of their trades and off-lease vehicles that come in make it to CPO. 2/3 are rejected and either sent to auction or exported out of the USA and sold in other markets.

 

[Cyclone]

Not to mention the fear about what else goes wrong. I've now put about $10k into my CPO. I pray nothing else goes wrong. I should note that this figure includes the clear bra, paint, and mirrors. So much of that would have been paid anyway. Just looking forward when the bills for the car stop coming in. Then I can save up for the electrical work - I'm still charging on 120v!

 

[MsElectric]

[/LIST]

While this may be true, that you can extend it to seven years, it starts at only 12 months (now with unlimited mileage) not 4 years ...
Don't get me wrong, I have serious concerns about the program - but not being able to extend a generous powertrain and initial CPO warranty are not concerns for me - YMMV of course.
It's delivering repaired/repainted vehicles and not standing behind them - that's a huge concern as it potentially have a massive impact on the value of the vehicle should you need to resell it (or indeed if it is subject to a major insurance claim).

Ah that's part of the Tesla marketing for the CPO warranty to make it seem like the CPO warranty they offer is better -- it is most certainly not.

Let me give you an example. When you buy a 2015 Model S CPO from Tesla that warranty runs out in 2019 with no way to extend it further. Whereas other car manufacturers CPO programs don't REPLACE the factory warranty but they ADD to that. So when you buy a CPO Mercedes for example you get the remainder of the factory warranty that runs to 2019 and then you get an additional year of coverage through the CPO program so you have coverage through 2020. But then they also offer you the option to buy an extended warranty allowing you to add 2 more years of coverage so you have full coverage of the car through 2022! We usually hold onto our cars for 5-6 years so the extra warranty coverage is absolutely essential especially since there is no way I'd consider owning a Tesla (or any premium car) out of warranty.

And not only do other manufacturers offer Extended Warranties for CPO cars, they offer the extended warranty with UNLIMITED MILES and ZERO deductible.

Tesla is the best car in the world but their CPO program and warranty coverage certainly are not the best in the industry.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, I don't agree with much of this except the part about extending the warranty.

A high end CPO car (MB, BMW, Porsche) shouldn't need to go to a body shop or have any PPI done. Part of the concept of CPO is to put the strength of the brand reputation behind the car - like you have with a new one. The "100+ point check" thing is supposed to mean something - I know it costs about $2K to CPO a Porsche. There is supposed to be value in both the inspection and warranty that comes with that.

Mistakes happen - I'm sure cars somehow slip thru the CPO process at the dealer and end up with issues. The problem here is that Tesla isn't standing behind it. No excuse for this. The clear bra position Tesla took is complete BS. If they aren't going to stand behind the paint problems they claim happened as a result of the clear bra they never should have included the car in the CPO program. They should have rejected it because it either currently had or in the past had a clear bra, offered the prior owner the option of having them auction it and moved on. Simple.

That's really an odd bit of logic you have going there You do realize the point I made about taking a car you plan to buy to a body shop for a PPI is precisely partly because of what happened to Cyclone right? The fact of the matter is that they have told him that if there was a bad repair or paint job done by a previous owner they will not stand behind that.

So it seems you are taking a really odd position here going against my suggestion of due diligence knowing the status quo. Its like saying there is a probability it might rain and you may get wet but you are against carrying an umbrella When paying over $60K for a used car (quite a bit of money for most people) I don't possibly see how investing an hour or two on the due diligence I suggested is a bad idea...

 

[ev-now]

buy a CPO Mercedes for example you get the remainder of the factory warranty that runs to 2019 and then you get an additional year of coverage through the CPO program

So in this example you are buying a less than one year old CPO from MB to have the 48 month factory take you to 2019. OK, get it. Thanks for clarifying their 12 month additional
coverage in their CPO - not that I want a MB. MB marketing got me here, not Tesla - as reading their site they DO say in addition - but it's a detail, not a headline. Anyway, thanks for clearing it up.

I totally agree with PPI based on Cyclone's experience - if indeed I do take the risk of a CPO vehicle.

 

[MsElectric]

So in this example you are buying a less than one year old CPO from MB to have the 48 month factory take you to 2019. OK, get it. Thanks for clarifying their 12 month additional
coverage in their CPO - not that I want a MB. MB marketing got me here, not Tesla - as reading their site they DO say in addition - but it's a detail, not a headline. Anyway, thanks for clearing it up.

I totally agree with PPI based on Cyclone's experience - if indeed I do take the risk of a CPO vehicle.

What's great with the CPO programs of other car manufacturers is that the CPO warranty kicks in AFTER the factory warranty expires. In addition to that other car manufacturers allow you to extend that CPO warranty by an additional couple of years and you get that CPO warranty extension with a zero deductible and unlimited miles.

This is why I've maintained though Tesla is the best car in the world their CPO program is certainly not close to being the best in the industry. The fact that they refuse to sell you an extended warranty on CPO cars is really perplexing given that if you buy the same car from a private party, the car could be bought with an extended warranty.