My request that the Arizona Attorney General's office investigate Tesla's changes to Ludicrous Mode

[JohnnyG]

I forgot to ask how you do this?

You'll need an iOS device (iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc). You'll have to download an app called "Powertools". If you're using an iOS device that doesn't have internet connectivity, then you'll need to use your phone as a hotspot (or similar device) and connect said iOS device to your hotspot. When you launch Powertools, you'll need to login with your MyTesla credentials. Then you can start a 0-60 run in Powertools, mash the throttle from a dead standstill, and note the times & power.

 

[conman]

You'll need an iOS device (iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc). You'll have to download an app called "Powertools". If you're using an iOS device that doesn't have internet connectivity, then you'll need to use your phone as a hotspot (or similar device) and connect said iOS device to your hotspot. When you launch Powertools, you'll need to login with your MyTesla credentials. Then you can start a 0-60 run in Powertools, mash the throttle from a dead standstill, and note the times & power.

Thanks. I don't personally have any iOS stuff, my wife does though, but i'm always reluctant to give my login credentials to any 3rd party app :s

 

[conman]

Begun the process for tonight. Set car to charge to 100% at 8pm

 

[conman]

9pm set max battery power, 55min to go. Cold weather so have to plan ahead. Still on wall power so using that to heat battery and not drain battery charge:

 

[Jjdsyd]

Interesting thread. I am buying a May '17 build P100D demo car with 2,200 kms on it. After read the last few pages of this thread I think I need to know how many times it has been launched - I suspect a lot.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Interesting thread. I am buying a May '17 build P100D demo car with 2,200 kms on it. After read the last few pages of this thread I think I need to know how many times it has been launched - I suspect a lot.

The launch counters and limits have finally been removed, so buying a demo car should be fine. They will fix any problems under warranty.

 

[conman]

Okay here's the full set of data on my P100D

Enabled ludicrous plus mode after an hour:

Estimate turned out to be out a long way. Still had a lot to go thanks to it being a cool night:

Finally had it at maximum temperature after another half hour. Baseline pic once it reached temperature:


Planned 2 runs, one in each direction for no launch control followed by 2 with launch control.

First run without launch control, slight traction issue due to uneven road at this end:

Second run without launch control in opposite direction. No traction issues:

First run with launch control. Noticeable improvement for me as driver:

Second run with launch control in opposite direction:

As I said before, demonstrably better with launch control enabled and pretty much what I've experienced prior to the latest update so I don't think it had any effect on the P100D.

Then I had to go for a cruise to use up some charge and not come home with 98% still in the tank so it didn't go to waste

 

[kort677]

have you seen this?
Tesla Unlocks Full Ludicrous Power After Small Claims Court Filing By Model S Owner

 

[TIppy]

Ludicrous plus was a post sale add on, so it wasn't something owners had paid for. Even once it started being shipped at time of sale, it was never available without launch mode. P90DL v2, v3 owners had paid for the extra 300 amps that came with the ludicrous option, and Tesla removed 100 amps after the sale. So they probably feel no pressure to remove the launch mode requirement for ludicrous plus. Ludicrous plus provides the same level of current draw from individual cells as 1600 amps does on the P90DL. Without the plus it's equivalent to 1500 amp on a P90DL. But because the 100 kwh pack has 86 cells in parallel instead of 74, even the non-plus mode is much more powerful than a P90DL at 1600 amps, briefly.

Also, notice how low some of the battery power kws are with max battery enabled.

 

[CanadaEV]

I don't know the finer details, but roughly speaking, it looks like you guys paid an extra $10,000 for that extra amperage. And Tesla got lots of media reviews for their superior tech, so they benefitted. Then it seems they discovered that if used as often as what they decided was 'excessively', it was too hard on some aspects of the vehicle, and decided to limit it. Now they've given it back, and are willing to take the hit that will come from stuff breaking or getting worn.

I wonder how this actually works. On the one hand, certainly, they should honour what they advertised and sold. On the other hand, how much responsibility does any manufacturer or customer have with extreme tech? There must be other examples of things that are designed to perform at upper levels, but that cannot perform those ways as an 'average' usage. It seems like they should repair damage caused by use within reasonable limits, but perhaps the customer has some responsibility to respect that there are reasonable limits.

Well, suppose that the vehicle does ok if the extreme feature is used 5X per 1,000 miles, but not if it's used 30X per 1,000 miles. Or, ok, how about 1X per mile? I mean, is there any reasonable limit? I'd be interested in what you that paid for this feature think about this, and if you would think any (self-imposed) limits on use would be unreasonable.

Thanks for any replies.

 

[conman]

Also, notice how low some of the battery power kws are with max battery enabled.

What do you mean by that?

 

[TIppy]

What do you mean by that?

I'm just pointing out that leaving max battery on would not increase energy usage to a great extent. It's about as much as a/c.

 

[conman]

I'm just pointing out that leaving max battery on would not increase energy usage to a great extent. It's about as much as a/c.

Not in my experience. The Wh/km goes up dramatically - at least on P100D.

 

[TIppy]

Not in my experience. The Wh/km goes up dramatically - at least on P100D.

On my P90DL the current went from 1.4 amps to 2.8 amps with max battery on. With the battery at 400 volts that's 1.12 KW total, or an increase of 0.56KW. Your battery KWs were as low as 0.8KW total.

At 55 mph (88.5 kph), the car requires about 12.5 KW of power from the battery. That's 12500 watts / 55 mph = 227 wh / mile (141 wh/km). If you add the additional 0.56KW due to max battery on to the 12.5 KW, you get 13.06 KW. So 13060 / 55 = 237 wh/mile (148 wh/km). So the wh/mile goes up about 4 percent. At higher speeds it's even less.

 

[conman]

On my P90DL the current went from 1.4 amps to 2.8 amps with max battery on. With the battery at 400 volts that's 1.12 KW total, or an increase of 0.56KW. Your battery KWs were as low as 0.8KW total.

At 55 mph (88.5 kph), the car requires about 12.5 KW of power from the battery. That's 12500 watts / 55 mph = 227 wh / mile (141 wh/km). If you add the additional 0.56KW due to max battery on to the 12.5 KW, you get 13.06 KW. So 13060 / 55 = 237 wh/mile (148 wh/km). So the wh/mile goes up about 4 percent. At higher speeds it's even less.

Unfortunately I don't have the powertools to measure. Perhaps the cooling/heating for the batteries is larger in the 100. There was no heating going on when I took those screenshots and I warmed the battery from the wall power. It would obviously fluctuate depending on whether it was actively heating or cooling or whatever...

 

[TIppy]

Unfortunately I don't have the powertools to measure. Perhaps the cooling/heating for the batteries is larger in the 100. There was no heating going on when I took those screenshots and I warmed the battery from the wall power. It would obviously fluctuate depending on whether it was actively heating or cooling or whatever...

Yes, it would take extra power to bring the pack up to temperature, but once there the heat from the motors is usually enough to maintain the temperature. And as you said, you can bring the battery up to temperature from the mains power in cold weather. If I've been driving for awhile, max battery is usually less than 5 minutes to ready.

 

[conman]

Yes, it would take extra power to bring the pack up to temperature, but once there the heat from the motors is usually enough to maintain the temperature. And as you said, you can bring the battery up to temperature from the mains power in cold weather. If I've been driving for awhile, max battery is usually less than 5 minutes to ready.

Yeah I guess I usually enable it while driving and being winter here it's churned through a lot of juice just to warm up. I've only done the wall charged warming when I planned to go out for a blast.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Okay here's the full set of data on my P100D

Enabled ludicrous plus mode after an hour:
View attachment 244813
Estimate turned out to be out a long way. Still had a lot to go thanks to it being a cool night:
View attachment 244814
Finally had it at maximum temperature after another half hour. Baseline pic once it reached temperature:
View attachment 244821

Planned 2 runs, one in each direction for no launch control followed by 2 with launch control.

First run without launch control, slight traction issue due to uneven road at this end:
View attachment 244815

Second run without launch control in opposite direction. No traction issues:
View attachment 244816

First run with launch control. Noticeable improvement for me as driver:
View attachment 244817

Second run with launch control in opposite direction:
View attachment 244818

As I said before, demonstrably better with launch control enabled and pretty much what I've experienced prior to the latest update so I don't think it had any effect on the P100D.

Then I had to go for a cruise to use up some charge and not come home with 98% still in the tank so it didn't go to waste

What version of the software do you have?

 

[conman]

What version of the software do you have?

32.6 ca28227

 

[n2mb_racing]

32.6 ca28227

Well, the plot thickens. Looks like the P100D was not included in the latest software update.