Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

My silky smooth 320 mile road trip with almost 100% AP control

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Confused. I think @calisnow 's request is completely reasonable. ...Early on we had the truly ignorant doing all sorts of risky and (IMO) absurdly stupid things. But fortunately, that seems to have gone away...

I took the request for documentation to be rhetorical. If there had been serious accidents using AP2 on local streets we would have all heard about them. The happy fact that there probably haven't been doesn't mean the system isn't dangerous. The reason, in my opinion, is that those of us who try it are hyper-vigilant, actually working harder than we would be if we just did the driving ourselves, and correcting the errors before they can cause crashes.

As a member - and presumably Tesla owner - since 2014 your perspective is different from mine. You early adopters were pioneers, and I applaud your spirit of adventure. Buying in the last quarter of last year I didn't sign up to do stress testing. I bought a highly rated production car with a set of features that were claimed to be in "final validation", with expected delivery by year end. That claim was false, as we now know that a required long software development process was just beginning when the claim was made.

So, having been victimized by a cynical marketing decision, some of us are somewhat cynical ourselves. Tesla and others have twisted the meaning of "beta testing" away from its original concept. Beta testers are volunteers who elect to try systems that aren't fully functional, either for the fun of it or out of altruism. When Tesla says a feature is in Beta, they simply mean it doesn't work well but they decided to put it into production anyway. Local street AP is an example, and I think it's irresponsible for them to assume that every driver will understand the limitations enough to keep himself, pedestrians, and occupants of other vehicles from grievous bodily harm.
 
So, having been victimized by a cynical marketing decision, some of us are somewhat cynical ourselves. Tesla and others have twisted the meaning of "beta testing" away from its original concept. Beta testers are volunteers who elect to try systems that aren't fully functional, either for the fun of it or out of altruism. When Tesla says a feature is in Beta, they simply mean it doesn't work well but they decided to put it into production anyway. Local street AP is an example, and I think it's irresponsible for them to assume that every driver will understand the limitations enough to keep himself, pedestrians, and occupants of other vehicles from grievous bodily harm.
Well, this week-end, I drove the brand new Audi A4 allroad from my best friend.
Sure, they did not label their system AutoPilot but Active Lane Assist but people are considering it like the competitor of Tesla AP and my friend even present it this way when explained the features in his car.
So we went for a drive and I wanted absolutely to test it on the highway: my god.... THIS, this is a killer feature, in the 1st and real sense!!!
The car goes directly on the right border, remain with the 2 wheels on the continuous lane for something like 5-10s, then, it starts to bounce the car left that goes all the way left until the left dash line, also sit there for many 2nd, starts even crossing it slightly before coming back to the other side... And this on and on...
I even did not had to say anything and my friend said that it was really more just a safety feature when you get asleep or are distracted to avoid crashing but that's it.
The issue is that to drive with it, you have to guide the car because people think you are drunk otherwise but if you drive, it disconnects everytime you apply a little too much steering.

Long story short: useless.

Tesla AP may not be perfect but this is just light years ahead of what Audi is offering. the Audi A8 system has to be in another dimension to be even remotely comparable to what Tesla has.
 
AP1 is the and will be the gold standard for many years to come. In fact I don't believe any improvements are needed for AP1 anymore, except for some minor refinements in edge odd cases.

As for AP2 I myself did not see much difference from AP1, and I wouldn't have even realized that I am not driving AP1 if I had been not been lurking in this forum. But then again my extended test drive was limited to 200 miles of AP driving in conditions I am extremely familiar with. So mine is not a real world experience with AP2
 
I continue to be puzzled about all the complaints about AutoPilot in general and Enhanced AutoPilot in particular.
We have a 2016 Model S 75 with AP1 and a 2017 Model S 100D with AP2. They both perform almost flawlessly under normal driving conditions.

I frequently drive to Asheville and back in one, day which involves 360 interstate miles. I can not remember the last time either car had to give back control of the car. Lane change is smooth, and the car stays in the center of the chosen lane. Once you understand that you perceive the car is hugging the right lane boundary using AP1 or AP2 even though it is actually in the middle of the lane (most people drive closer to the left margin of the lane than the center because of the driver position being on the left side of the car), you can really appreciate what a good job AutoPilot does keeping the car centered in its lane.

We also drive frequently to Roaring Gap, which consists of 65 miles of interstate (or equivalent), 18 miles of two lane, well marked road, and 7 miles of windy mountain road (where we do not use AP). While both AP1 and AP2 both perform flawlessly, AP2 actually performs better on the two lane, well marked highway because for some reason it is not limited to 5 mph over the speed limit.

I am convinced that AutoPilot (both AP1 and AP2) react faster than humans can in crucial situations, and have personal experiences to support this opinion.

For example, while driving on I-40 in heavy traffic in the passing lane, I was following a box truck around which I could not see. Suddenly the S 100D with AP2 slammed on the breaks. I was startled and thought there had been a malfunction because the truck's brake lights were not on, and the truck did not appear to be slowing. Suddenly the truck's brake lights came on, and it was braking hard. The truck then swerved into the center median narrowly missing the car that was stopped in front of it. I was able to stop more gradually, allowing more time for the car behind me also to stop. We had come up on stopped traffic at the beginning of a construction zone that I could not see because of the truck, and driver of the truck had apparently not registered. Apparently the Tesla's radar had detected the traffic in front of the truck and applied the brakes, warning me and giving me time to stop safely.

I will never own a car without AutoPilot and use AP1 and AP2 as often as I can convenience and safety.
 
I continue to be puzzled about all the complaints about AutoPilot in general and Enhanced AutoPilot in particular.
We have a 2016 Model S 75 with AP1 and a 2017 Model S 100D with AP2. They both perform almost flawlessly under normal driving conditions.

I frequently drive to Asheville and back in one, day which involves 360 interstate miles. I can not remember the last time either car had to give back control of the car. Lane change is smooth, and the car stays in the center of the chosen lane. Once you understand that you perceive the car is hugging the right lane boundary using AP1 or AP2 even though it is actually in the middle of the lane (most people drive closer to the left margin of the lane than the center because of the driver position being on the left side of the car), you can really appreciate what a good job AutoPilot does keeping the car centered in its lane.

We also drive frequently to Roaring Gap, which consists of 65 miles of interstate (or equivalent), 18 miles of two lane, well marked road, and 7 miles of windy mountain road (where we do not use AP). While both AP1 and AP2 both perform flawlessly, AP2 actually performs better on the two lane, well marked highway because for some reason it is not limited to 5 mph over the speed limit.

I am convinced that AutoPilot (both AP1 and AP2) react faster than humans can in crucial situations, and have personal experiences to support this opinion.

For example, while driving on I-40 in heavy traffic in the passing lane, I was following a box truck around which I could not see. Suddenly the S 100D with AP2 slammed on the breaks. I was startled and thought there had been a malfunction because the truck's brake lights were not on, and the truck did not appear to be slowing. Suddenly the truck's brake lights came on, and it was braking hard. The truck then swerved into the center median narrowly missing the car that was stopped in front of it. I was able to stop more gradually, allowing more time for the car behind me also to stop. We had come up on stopped traffic at the beginning of a construction zone that I could not see because of the truck, and driver of the truck had apparently not registered. Apparently the Tesla's radar had detected the traffic in front of the truck and applied the brakes, warning me and giving me time to stop safely.

I will never own a car without AutoPilot and use AP1 and AP2 as often as I can convenience and safety.
I shared the similar experience on major hwy. It is quite good already.

In Iocal drive, definitely a way to go. I got some scary moments on local streets with clear marks

I do appreciate some of the complains because not everyone live in US or regularly drive on major hwy.
 
I am convinced that AutoPilot (both AP1 and AP2) react faster than humans can in crucial situations, and have personal experiences to support this opinion.

For example,...
This is not an example of AP reacting faster than a human would. It's an example of AP having sensor input that a human lacks, so it can react to possible problems sooner. This is a great and awesome thing. But I'm wondering if you actually have any examples of AP reacting faster. My favorite example is dimming the brights, but that's not really a driving thing.
 
This is not an example of AP reacting faster than a human would. It's an example of AP having sensor input that a human lacks, so it can react to possible problems sooner. This is a great and awesome thing. But I'm wondering if you actually have any examples of AP reacting faster. My favorite example is dimming the brights, but that's not really a driving thing.


I do. The car stopped before I could. Whether it has additional sensors that I don't have is irrelevant.

I have another example, though. We were driving our S 75 on a rural, two lane well marked road through farm country. I had the AP1 engaged and, and we were traveling 60 mph in a 55mph zone. We came around a curve, and there was a huge farm combine going 15 mph in our lane and oncoming traffic in the other. The car immediately sounded the alarm and applied the brakes well before I could (and did) react. Even with AP's quick reaction, we were barely able to stop in time.

Compared to saving lives, inadequate dimming headlights seems to me to be a bit of a first world complaint. Furthermore, I have owned and driven practically every luxury brand (foreign and domestic, excepting GM products), and none of them have ever worked very well. They either stay on too long blinding on coming traffic, bounce on and of as you pass traffic signs or stay on dim because of street lights.
I'll trade having to dim my headlights manually for a vehicle that will stop in an emergency before I can.
 
  • Love
Reactions: pilotSteve
Even though it wasn't the point of your post, after reading it I must conclude that AP2 is now superior to AP1. I have a 2016 Model S 90D with AP1. When I first received the car in the spring of 2016, its AP1 seemed quite stable for highway use. Disengagements were rare and usually for reasons that made sense. However, after the firmware was reconfigured following the fatality in Florida, AP1 has been more prone to weird behavior, leading to more frequent disengagements. Occasionally, the car will wander back and forth on a straight stretch of highway with clear pavement markings and no traffic nearby. Steering corrections are sometimes jerky. To me, AP1 just doesn't feel as confident as it once did.

My car went to the service center this Monday for its second annual service. I drove a Model X 100D loaner for the day and tried out its AP2 on I-95 in Boston. I noticed a difference right away. The behavior was more refined, and I didn't experience any unexpected disengagements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
I have friends with AP1 cars. Maybe one day I’ll see if I can switch with them for a weekend and get a multi-hour AP1 session in and try to get a feel for how AP1 is these days. I have literally never used AP1 so have zero base for comparison. But I am liking AP2 and it seems to be getting better and better.

Yesterday because of stop light luck and/or a “lead” car, I was also able to drive down a busy corridor (El Camino Real) at a traffic-y time of day for almost 5 miles (that was dozen plus lights worth of driving) and it handled the city street like a champ (handling cut-ins, curves, long intersections w/o lane lines, etc) - with no disengagements. It makes it so that I can sort of, kind of see the future of a self-driving car in the next couple of years.

Now I’d just like to see some new AP features (highway transition and stop light recognition are my top choices) in addition to the continuous refinements for the already-present aspects of AP2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EinSV
Great chronicle, Cameron.. Thanks so much.

So, I've only had my AP2.5 MS since the end of Aug '18, so I haven't taken a long trip yet. I'm curious how the auto-steering "nag" worked for you. In my shorter trips, I'm not too pleased with having to wiggle the wheel or fight against how the car wants to steer. I can imagine that on a longer trip this will either be less or more aggravating depending on the human's accommodation. Of course, I'm not advocating removing hands from the wheel, but I'd hope it will eventually be touch, not force, sensitive.
 
Great chronicle, Cameron.. Thanks so much.

So, I've only had my AP2.5 MS since the end of Aug '18, so I haven't taken a long trip yet. I'm curious how the auto-steering "nag" worked for you. In my shorter trips, I'm not too pleased with having to wiggle the wheel or fight against how the car wants to steer. I can imagine that on a longer trip this will either be less or more aggravating depending on the human's accommodation. Of course, I'm not advocating removing hands from the wheel, but I'd hope it will eventually be touch, not force, sensitive.

The nags weren't the same a year ago when this thread was created.
 
Great chronicle, Cameron.. Thanks so much.

So, I've only had my AP2.5 MS since the end of Aug '18, so I haven't taken a long trip yet. I'm curious how the auto-steering "nag" worked for you. In my shorter trips, I'm not too pleased with having to wiggle the wheel or fight against how the car wants to steer. I can imagine that on a longer trip this will either be less or more aggravating depending on the human's accommodation. Of course, I'm not advocating removing hands from the wheel, but I'd hope it will eventually be touch, not force, sensitive.

Thanks Danny. This was written some time ago. Yes, as @cartwright mentioned, the nags were less frequent a year ago than there are now.

But I have made the same trip multiple times since then (last on 2018.36.X) and I will say that although I wasn't as fastidious about documentation (before i hooked up a camera and had it pointing at the IC the whole way for later review), by my seat of the pants observation, I'd be pretty confident that I might be able to do that whole trip with even less deactivations of AP and a higher-than-already-high confidence.

Recently (may have been 2018.36...I forget) they made a change whereby you can also 'satisfy' the frequent 'nag' by doing anything with any of the controls on the steering wheel. I'd pause and unpause the music. Or turn the volume up a notch and back down. So if you like that better than applying 'light force' on the wheel, then that's an option. Personally, I find a place where I can rest my right arm on the wheel and it applies just the right amount of weight to usually keep the nags from coming on. Maybe 90% of the time, my grip effectively lets AP know I have the wheel and so i don't have to deal with so many nags. The other 10% when I do get the nags, I alternate between using the steering wheel controls and 'conventionally' applying a little more torque to the wheel itself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Electroman