omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
No S yet, but I think the EPA already uses the from the wall charging efficiency, so you can just plug and chug with those figures for an apples to apples comparison.
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My Tesla Story - and why a Model S is less expensive than a Honda Odyssey
- Thread starter pl804
- Start date
No S yet, but I think the EPA already uses the from the wall charging efficiency, so you can just plug and chug with those figures for an apples to apples comparison.
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I updated the paragraph re: depreciation, and added notes to the model.
If you want to copy the model and input your own values, you can click on the direct link to the model (bottom of the home page, or at the bottom of the embedded model). Here's the direct link as well:
Google Drive
If you want to copy the model and input your own values, you can click on the direct link to the model (bottom of the home page, or at the bottom of the embedded model). Here's the direct link as well:
Google Drive
Most likely you will find that you will drive your model S more miles than you typically drive your other cars which will help the model. As an early purchaser, I had no idea about resale value, so my justification was that I would drive it a long time as long as it is reliable.
For me having HOV access is a huge time savings which translates into billable hours for my line of work. If I save 1/2 hour driving to and from an appointment a couple of times a week, it adds up quickly. We have a supercharger trip planned the week after Easter which will save $350 in fuel costs.
For me having HOV access is a huge time savings which translates into billable hours for my line of work. If I save 1/2 hour driving to and from an appointment a couple of times a week, it adds up quickly. We have a supercharger trip planned the week after Easter which will save $350 in fuel costs.
Meh, it's not going to be that good. Besides gas prices have been coming down....at least in Oregon they have.
Thank you for the spreadsheet link. I think that one should consider setting aside some amount annually ($2,000?) for the traction battery as it will need to be renewed at some point. Perhaps there will be an improvement in the battery technology with a retrofit exchange available but at some point the original will need to be replaced as would any wear item.
BTW, this wound up reaching #4 on Hacker News ... but within an hour, it somehow got flagged I think? and fell to 40 and then off the charts. But interesting discussion inside there.
Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey | Hacker News
Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey | Hacker News
Alysashley79
Active Member
@pl804
very nice write up. My husband and I loved the way the tesla looked. Or at least he did and then he wanted a test drive so I arranged it for him and "went along" and I ended up being the one obsessed with the car and how can we get the car. We had a honda pilot which was a fantastic car but a complete gas guzzler. So while this car for us was an emotional decision it was probably 90% driven by the fact that over 5 years it would save us $. Many people say that this car isn't one that will save you $ and is more of an emotional decision. I disagree. The people that say that are people that have been driving luxury cars already and are moving from one expensive cargo another IMHO. I was spending $800-900 per month on gas just for MY car that doesn't even take into consideration what my husband was spending on his is car. I spend less on my tesla payment! AND I love this car!
very nice write up. My husband and I loved the way the tesla looked. Or at least he did and then he wanted a test drive so I arranged it for him and "went along" and I ended up being the one obsessed with the car and how can we get the car. We had a honda pilot which was a fantastic car but a complete gas guzzler. So while this car for us was an emotional decision it was probably 90% driven by the fact that over 5 years it would save us $. Many people say that this car isn't one that will save you $ and is more of an emotional decision. I disagree. The people that say that are people that have been driving luxury cars already and are moving from one expensive cargo another IMHO. I was spending $800-900 per month on gas just for MY car that doesn't even take into consideration what my husband was spending on his is car. I spend less on my tesla payment! AND I love this car!
AndreyATC
Member
FWIW, It looks like MS takes about 1.25kw for every 1kw it drives
This is my rough estimate through observation (kw spent vs time to charge at 9.6kw)
So multiply that by whatever your math is doing in 330whm section
This is my rough estimate through observation (kw spent vs time to charge at 9.6kw)
So multiply that by whatever your math is doing in 330whm section
Thanks. What are you seeing in the car wrt Wh / mile?
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Thanks for sharing your story. I think for lots of driving, the picture is even clearer, as you write. I put 30K into the model and the Model S moved to #2, behind only the RAV4 EV (which doesn't have quick charge or long distance capabilities).
AndreyATC
Member
My short average (i recently reset my trip computer) in this warm weather is a tick below 290wh/m
I'm sure it's gonna go up as it's hard to drive this car in granny style
Now with low suspension setting and summer 21inch tires i get constant urge
Also, for your calculations it probably makes sense to use higher number for someone in cold climate
Average for a year will go up a bit
Mine was 400-420whm during this crazy winter
InTheShadows
Active Member
Canuck
Well-Known Member
That depends on how you define "last" as regards the battery's useful life.
There have been many discussions on TMC about how there is some evidence to support the thesis that after 100K miles or so the Tesla battery may lose about 20% of its capacity but from that point on further capacity loss may be minimal. We won't know for sure for a few years yet.
It is possible that at 200K miles or more an 85kW battery may still have 200 miles of range remaining, in which case it would still be quite useful and may not be worth replacing.
It is also entirely possible that 8 years from now replacement 85kW batteries will be much cheaper than they are today, perhaps half the price. In which case replacement cost could be $12K. Certainly over the next 8 years battery costs are going to fall by a significant amount. They are not going to be anywhere near today's cost (measured in inflation-adjusted dollars).
Of course the 8 year warranty does not cover degradation. Any claim that the battery will be the same as new at 200k miles in 8 years is just wrong. Any likelihood that Tesla will replace such a battery when warranty specifically excludes degradation?
I find it unlikely (not impossible) to get 200 miles from a 200k battery. I suspect 20% per 100k miles with only minimal slowdown for the second 100k miles. There maybe no slowdown as the depth of charge will tend to increase.
It is entirely possible that degradation will speed up and 50% is about what a 240k mile battery will have left.
Does anyone know what the performance of a P85 would be with a 50% degraded battery? It sounds like the P model taps the battery maximally. So if the battery is 50% degraded, does that mean 50% less power?
The current battery retails for $40k. Expecting 50% price drop in 8 years is IMO wildly optimistic. 30% I could see.
I find it unlikely (not impossible) to get 200 miles from a 200k battery. I suspect 20% per 100k miles with only minimal slowdown for the second 100k miles. There maybe no slowdown as the depth of charge will tend to increase.
It is entirely possible that degradation will speed up and 50% is about what a 240k mile battery will have left.
Does anyone know what the performance of a P85 would be with a 50% degraded battery? It sounds like the P model taps the battery maximally. So if the battery is 50% degraded, does that mean 50% less power?
The current battery retails for $40k. Expecting 50% price drop in 8 years is IMO wildly optimistic. 30% I could see.
If that is in response to my post , that is not what I was claiming. And certainly no Lion battery is going to be "as new " at 200K miles. There will be significant degradation.
I agree that could happen. If that is the case, a battery with 200K miles could still have some useful life left in it. But many owners will consider replacing the battery. What the replacement cost will be in 8 years, no one can say with much certainty.
tliving
Member
I did a similar analysis for my own needs versus getting another Acura MDX:
Cost Justification a tie? | Tesla Living
Not quite as mathematical but we all have to justify things our own way to get to the end result.
6 more days to delivery...
Cost Justification a tie? | Tesla Living
Not quite as mathematical but we all have to justify things our own way to get to the end result.
6 more days to delivery...
For battery life, I think you need to factor in battery cycle pattern as well as mileage.
I think the battery is going to be happier if you're doing three 40-mile trips per day with recharging in between instead of one 120 mile trip per day.
I ferry my kids around and my driving pattern looks like lots of 5-20 mile trips with charging in between. But I put 20K miles per year on the car.
I think the battery is going to be happier if you're doing three 40-mile trips per day with recharging in between instead of one 120 mile trip per day.
I ferry my kids around and my driving pattern looks like lots of 5-20 mile trips with charging in between. But I put 20K miles per year on the car.
