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myEV by MyCarma: electric vehicle logger & app

Discussion in 'Model S' started by jvonbokel, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. jkliu47

    jkliu47 Member

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    @strochaniak - thanks for the reply.

    Final question - what happens if your IGG campaign doesn't meet funding goal. Does it mean if I am a Pioneer, I will lose out on the myEV?
     
  2. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    No problem.

    The answer to this question really depends on where we end up. If it's the last day of the campaign and we're still only at $12,000, then it's unlikely that we'd go ahead with it (for the time-being). If we're inches away from hitting the goal though, its something we would discuss and strongly consider.

    With that in mind, we're going to continue to work our tails off over these next few weeks so that we don't have to come across this situation :)

    Let me know if any more questions come up.


    Thanks again!
    Sunny
     
  3. jvonbokel

    jvonbokel John VonBokel

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    Has anybody else signed on lately? There's just under 2 weeks left, and they're only at ~$8500 out of $25k. Any ideas on how to draw more attention to it?
     
  4. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Just noticed this, and the bullshit comparison including OVMS (and others). I'd laugh if it wasn't so deceitful. Comparing a cellular logger against bluetooth, and giving a negative red cross to the cellular loggers for cellular fees is just wrong.

    To be clear: you have to be physically next to, or in, the car in order to download your trip data. No alerting if charge is interrupted. No remote lock/unlock. No GPS position. No remote valet on/off. No charge status. No ... well, not much at all apart from the bullshit that is MPGe, basic SOC%, and charge time histogram. As for 'battery health' - no technical information on how they get that, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was something bullshit like percentage time spent at high/low SOC, or drop in maximum SOC seen - certainly not the detailed technical info (cell voltages, CAC, etc) that is harder to get at.

    Sorry, but this one doesn't do it for me. And with all the social features they have a total of 73 backers after 4 weeks.
     
  5. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Update: Matt has graciously removed OVMS from the comparison chart, and responded very quickly.

    To be clear: the reason I don't think this product should be compared to OVMS is because OVMS is not a logger (the primary purpose of OVMS is to allow you to remotely check the status of your car and be alerted to problems).
     
  6. jvonbokel

    jvonbokel John VonBokel

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    I'm only vaguely familiar with OVMS, but it sounds like you're right, that it's not a good/fair comparison. Obviously in the case of the Model S, remote monitoring is already covered thanks to Tesla's own iOS/Android apps.

    I agree it'd be nice if we could know a little more about how the myEV system calculates battery health, or what data exactly will be available on specific vehicles, but it's a bit of a chicken/egg situation, where they can't finalize everything without the funding, so I guess there's a bit of a leap of faith involved in any of these crowdfunding concepts.

    Also, to touch on your comment about being in/near the car, it's true that you have to be there for the initial data transfer, but to be clear, you don't always have to be nearby in order to have functionality. In an e-mail conversation with Sunny, he explained that the data is transmitted to your phone via bluetooth at the end of each trip, then uploaded to their servers via your phone's data connection, so when you access the app, it's pulling that archived data from their servers.
     
  7. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Yes, that sounds correct, but it would mean that we are dependent on them continuing to supply the cloud services for free. Without the cloud, is it a brick?

    The issue is if you don't have your phone with you, or the iOS App is not in the background, or if it is your wife driving the car, then the logs are not available until you (or your phone) gets back into/near the car and syncs.

    I am not saying it is a bad design, or bad arrangement at all. I am just seeking clarity in how this works.
     
  8. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    #28 strochaniak, Jun 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
    Thanks again for the continued support John! We're at 40% and over 10k now, and there are still 19 days left (I believe we might also have the option to extend a few days). There's still a long way to go though, so let me know if there's anything I can do to help you support the project. We're also working super hard to make sure we reach that goal.

    Just to reiterate a lot of what Matt said in his email:

    We definitely didn't mean to pick a fight, as we're actually big fans of OVMS. The only reason we put up a comparison and had OVMS is because backers asked us to put it up so people could understand the differences. I made the chart to highlight the benefits of the MyCarma myEV contrasted against other loggers, and I didn't intend it to be an absolute comparison. Cellular loggers have their own distinct functionality & benefits as you mentioned, and it's my fault for not making that painfully clear. I've added a note to the chart regarding this, but we are in the process of reworking it to give a more holistic view.

    We've intentionally left out a lot of the technical information because we're trying to target myEV to the more mainstream EV owner that wants the cleaned/summarized data instead of the raw stream. It is easy to see why this could cause some skepticism though.

    While the signals vary by vehicle, we try and get battery voltage, current, SOC, temp, vehicle state, and vehicle speed. Some of the vehicles we don't get all of those, and some we're able to get a lot more. For battery health, we use a combination of historical data, technical information from the battery, and an advanced algorithm. All the data from our loggers comes back to our servers, which is how we can feed results to the phone that would be too computationally intensive to do locally. For data/vehicles we have the right to aggregate we actually post high-level results - here are over 15,000 trips for the 2012 LEAF. And Matt's background is in battery health, who actually spent four years in grad school doing little other than beating up batteries to see how they degrade and how that can be measured. We've tweaked/tune the algorithm over the past 5 years, but the core structure is still similar to that from his thesis. The algorithm is better for vehicles that we more data for - fortunately we've got a really good database for the common vehicles. For the others it will start ok and will improve as the database grows.

    With regards to the cloud, it is necessary for the app to function. As I mentioned before, the process is too resource intensive to occur right on the phone. A growing number of applications these days rely heavily on communicating with the cloud. We're doing this at a much larger scale for commercial fleets, so there is reason to trust that there will be stability with our system.

    Your 2nd point is also true; logs won't be available if there isn't a phone in the car connected to the logger through bluetooth. Your wife could technically log into your account on her phone, if you so insist. We realize this is probably less than ideal, but given that this is a new project, and the fact that we're trying to keep costs down in order to appeal to the consumer market, we must make certain reservations (for now), as I'm sure you understand.

    We will be coming out with a short technical FAQ video within the next week, in order to address some of the questions. If anyone has any in particular, please let me know.

    Again, we didn't mean to stir a commotion, and have tried our best to hopefully resolve all your immediate concerns.



    Thanks!
    Sunny
     
  9. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    I have Automatic for my TDI. That data goes to the app on my phone via bluetooth. The purpose (at least for me) is understanding operation history rather than immediate monitoring (although there are some immediate features - these are of little value to me).

    Recurring issues I see are the range anxiety barrier to even exploring EV purchase. I'm facing that with a friend and my fiance. One obvious solution is to look at your daily driving history over an extended period, that should help people understand frequency of going over a particular vehicle's range limit (if it's once a year, renting is not a deal breaker. If it's twice a month that doesn't work).
     
  10. jvonbokel

    jvonbokel John VonBokel

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    Can we interpret that to mean that a future version of the hardware could include on-board data storage for caching logs when they're unable to be transferred to a phone immediately?

    Also, when you say "reservations", I take that to mean something like "compromises" or "sacrifices", correct?
     
  11. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    #31 strochaniak, Jun 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2014
    Hey John,

    I just realized I screwed up in my reply. As I mentioned to you in an email before, the hardware will actually include on-board storage for caching logs in the initial release. Therefore if you don't have your phone on you for a trip, or you wife is out with the car, that data will still be transferred to your phone the next time you connect to the logger through bluetooth. Thanks for asking for that clarification!

    Yeah, that's correct. Our fleet-grade loggers have the ability to transfer the data to our servers through a cellular connection, but that obviously increases costs considerably, and raises the price of the system to a number higher than most individuals are willing to accept. In this case, using a bluetooth connection just makes a lot more sense (though you could technically call it a 'compromise').

    EDIT: So it turns out I got it half right.. both times. Just got word from the team that the on-board storage would potentially be included in a future release of the hardware, or if we get a surge to the Indiegogo campaign and reach one of our stretch goals (surpass $25k by a considerable amount). In any case, it's definitely something that's on our radar. I apologize for the confusion!
     
  12. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    Hey guys, just wanted to share the news with you that we've added the Tesla Roadster to our compatibility list as of today (hat-tip to Mark from OVMS). It's still being finalized, but we're now confident that we'll have the signals we need by the time we ship in October :)
     
  13. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    To add on to the previous comments, we put out an update yesterday (myEV by MyCarma: electric vehicle logger app | Indiegogo) that we will now be providing a free upgrade: either on-board storage or cellular connectivity. This eliminates the need to always have the app connected in order to log trip data. A quick overview of both:

    On-board Storage – This is all the original goodness, with the addition of on-board storage. Did your smartphone run out of juice, or did you forget it by the coffee maker? No worries. This hardware will store your data when the phone isn’t around and will upload once the phone comes back. There is enough storage to hold many weeks of data. Benefits: all those originally listed, plus storage to ensure you don’t lose any data. There are no costs to you.

    Cellular Connectivity – Rather than needing to pair to your smartphone for the data connection, data will be automatically uploaded through the cell network. The big benefit of this is that we will be able to add features that we can’t do with a Bluetooth connection (ie. charge-complete notification, remote vehicle status, connection to smart-EVSEs, etc). These features are in addition to the ones already listed in the campaign. The downside is that it comes at a cost, and we can’t give lifetime subscriptions - we get charged monthly for the data. As a backer special, we would provide you 2 years of free service, and would then cost $25/year thereafter.


    As Tesla owners, which option would you prefer? With cellular connectivity, I know you can already control charging and view car status remotely, but is there anything else you wish you had/were able to do (ie push notifications)?
     
  14. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    I really despise products with "locked up" features (i.e. "crippleware"). If I buy a product that I *own*, why should I be *required* to join a team of people I don't know just to "unlock achievements"? Is this a video game? I really don't care to create or join any team of EV owners at this point, so unless there's some alternate method of unlocking all the "achievements" as soon as I buy the product, I won't be buying one. The locked features on the list are ALL things I think someone would want to see for a product they BOUGHT. I really don't feel the need to participate in this silly "team" thing in order to access those features, as I'm pretty sure I'm not buying an X-Box.
     
  15. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    I can appreciate where you're coming from. We certainly don't intend for it to function as crippleware, and core functionality will immediately be available to all users. The social unlocks will simply serve as a fun way to unlock additional bonus features.
     
  16. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Sounds to me like that is what Hank is complaining about.
     
  17. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    Fair enough. Well we're completely open to all feedback at this point. If enough people don't like the idea of having teams, we'll scrap it. If people want another method to get all functionality, we'll implement one. So far we have received pretty positive feedback though.
     
  18. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    #38 HankLloydRight, Jul 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
    So in order to try to get access to the blocked features, what if I'm forced join some crappy team that doesn't hit the achievements? Why should I be penalized by not getting access to these BASE features because of a bunch of anonymous losers on my "team"?

    The whole idea is more of a brain fart and really not thought out. Sure, it sounds like fun, but in reality, pretty stupid.

    Either allow full access to all the features, or charge extra for them so we know what's available for what price. But to have to be forced to rely on "teams"? Unless you can explain some business case or objective (i.e. "profit") for locking out the features to paying customers, I don't see how this team thing makes any sense at all. It's a forced social network, which is fine if you're providing a service for free (like Facebook), but not for a hardware product you are selling.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Maybe it's not your intent, but it is exactly what you're selling.
     
  19. strochaniak

    strochaniak Member

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    Like I said, we wouldn't restrict access to base features (since we have paying customers as you mentioned), and the app would have a high level of utility whether you're on a team or not. A lot of people have told us they like the social aspect of the logger, so we'll be trying a few different things. The path to the end-goal is far from defined, and a lot of weight will be put into backer/user feedback (such as yours).
     
  20. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    Translation: We will restrict access to advanced features based on a silly/forced social experiment.

    I'm not saying people won't like the idea, surely there's people out there who like like *anything* if they want to participate. But you're assuming *everyone* wants to participate. And you know what they say when you assume things.

    But clearly based on your previous responses, you're pretty married/seduced to this team idea, so, as I said before, until there's some alternative to gain access to ALL the features without playing the game, I'm not buying. Which is unfortunate, because this is a device I'd love to have, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
     

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