MYLR vs Mach-e vs RAV4 Prime

[whisperingshad]

We've had our Rav4 Prime for a couple of months now. Still waiting on our MYP as our second car. Personally, we feel the Rav4Prime is awesome. Most of our typical weekly driving uses only electric. However, it is nice to have the gas engine if we wish to go longer. I'll be interested to see which car we grab when we are taking a longer road trip in the future. We "only" paid MSRP for our Rav4 Prime -- to this day we are not sure why the dealer let us pay "only" that much when dealers were selling them for so much more. We needed a car and thought it would be a Tesla. Then, we ran into this crazy long wait for the Tesla. Thus, the Tesla is becoming car #2 (we've been living with one car for the entire pandemic as we were not leaving home often and expect that to change soon). We were eligible for the $7500 rebate on the Rav4Prime also -- so it was a great choice for us.

I will likely trade up the Mrs prius prime for a rav4 prime at some point, unless i upgrade to a newer Tesla in a few years and give her the Y.

 

[jpfive]

I tried the plug in hybrid approach before with a Ford C-Max and I think you basically get the worst of both worlds, depending on your driving patterns. You'll get all the noise and maintenance of an ICE vehicle, and a very limited EV only mode range. The only appreciable benefits to me would be acquisition costs and unlimited ICE range.

My advice would be to get the Rav4 Hybrid skip the complexity / hassles / limitations of a plugin EV.

I agree with your comments about a plug-in hybrid. I see the logic for an in-town commuter car, but not for hitting the road. A standard hybrid would be better for that. The RAV4 is a good example. I would consider one as a replacement for my wife's ICE. Why? Hurricanes are becoming more tedious here in the Florida Panhandle. A 500-mile, actual range vehicle for hurrevacs actually makes sense to me. Otherwise, traveling in the MY has been a pure pleasure.

 

[jpfive]

The suspension is a floppy mess. It gives no confidence when driving quickly. Undersprung. Underdamped. The car flops around on bumps and in turns. Our Subaru Forester is much better. It rolls more, but it controls over bumps far better. The Subaru will lean then take a set and do fine. The MY will lean less but never seems to settle down. It's terribly disappointing. It's not failed suspension like it's broken. Our Forester was much worse when the rear struts died. It's just poorly designed.

This has not been my experience. For many years I was big into auto crossing, so I have some experience in aggressive driving. When I left auto crossing (getting bored) I substituted sport bikes and semi annual trips to the mountains of TN/NC. I think I am a good judge of performance. My Model Y handles like a heavier version of the Model 3 that it replaced. I think it brakes well, turns in well, and sling shots into straights. Body roll is well controlled, steering is neutral - and quick - and I have to remind myself that this is a medium size SUV that will carry my wife and I and all our gear comfortably coast-to-coast. But, your mileage obviously varies. Cheers

 

[Jigglypuff]

This has not been my experience. For many years I was big into auto crossing, so I have some experience in aggressive driving. When I left auto crossing (getting bored) I substituted sport bikes and semi annual trips to the mountains of TN/NC. I think I am a good judge of performance. My Model Y handles like a heavier version of the Model 3 that it replaced. I think it brakes well, turns in well, and sling shots into straights. Body roll is well controlled, steering is neutral - and quick - and I have to remind myself that this is a medium size SUV that will carry my wife and I and all our gear comfortably coast-to-coast. But, your mileage obviously varies. Cheers

Certainly the M3P I drove in anger was nothing like the MYLR I have now.

Car and Driver wrote:
"it feels clumsy and increasingly unhappy as you probe its cornering limits. The Tesla's ride is noticeably flintier and less refined, and tire impacts resonate through the structure. The Model Y can't hide its 4439-pound weight. Pressing toward that 0.94-g number taxes the Pirelli P Zero rubber, and the suspension never seems to settle down."

They were writing about the MYP, but this sums up my feelings on the suspension pretty well too.

When I drove on the relatively smooth roads of Hawaii, where I first had the car, it was no problem. Everything was smooth, and there's not much room for fast driving there, so I never went fast. Back here in Cali, on the local rough canyon roads, well, it's a whole other story.

But that's why I'm looking at aftermarket options. New dampers and stiffer springs should make a world of difference.

 

[bruce4000]

I have a MY, but my son looking at Rav4Prine as can’t afford Tesla MY yet, and can get tax credit on Prime. Could do his weekly commute all on electric. Unfortunately, Toyota telling him will be March or April before he can get one. I don’t know if chip shortage or just not making very many of them.

 

[Jigglypuff]

I have a MY, but my son looking at Rav4Prine as can’t afford Tesla MY yet, and can get tax credit on Prime. Could do his weekly commute all on electric. Unfortunately, Toyota telling him will be March or April before he can get one. I don’t know if chip shortage or just not making very many of them.

Chip shortage. Gotta pay to get something right away.

 

[jpfive]

Certainly the M3P I drove in anger was nothing like the MYLR I have now.

Car and Driver wrote:
"it feels clumsy and increasingly unhappy as you probe its cornering limits. The Tesla's ride is noticeably flintier and less refined, and tire impacts resonate through the structure. The Model Y can't hide its 4439-pound weight. Pressing toward that 0.94-g number taxes the Pirelli P Zero rubber, and the suspension never seems to settle down."

They were writing about the MYP, but this sums up my feelings on the suspension pretty well too.

When I drove on the relatively smooth roads of Hawaii, where I first had the car, it was no problem. Everything was smooth, and there's not much room for fast driving there, so I never went fast. Back here in Cali, on the local rough canyon roads, well, it's a whole other story.

But that's why I'm looking at aftermarket options. New dampers and stiffer springs should make a world of difference.

Thank you for answering as to a difference of opinion, and in a respectful tone. Your point on the handling is well taken, and appropriate, as long as context is maintained. Certainly, none of my bikes remained stock for long, either in powerplant or suspension. Anybody with a passion for weekend racing, or for shredding public roads, would want to modify their car to maximize performance and handling. However, for the purpose for which the car was intended - namely, carrying people and things, while supporting a thrilling and engaging ownership experience - the stock Model Y is up to the task. Perhaps "floppy mess" is less respectful than the car deserves.

RE C&D's review. I have been a subscriber since they were known as Sports Car Illustrated (SCI), back in the day. Their editors, and reviewers, take themselves quite seriously. As entertaining as they are, they sometimes get carried away. When that happens, their hyperbole can be a disservice to car and manufacturer. In the case of Tesla, and the moto press in general, company policies make this worse than it should be. Magazines write for enthusiasts, while keeping in mind advertising revenue. They are also used to very respectful handling from the manufacturers' PR people, and those who provide them with their test vehicles. And then there's Tesla. No PR department, no advertising, no friendly strokes, little respect and cooperation, and no provided vehicles. I'm amazed they've been as well treated as they have.

Always glad to exchange views with folks who are passionate about cars, and about what Tesla has brought to the mix. Viva la Revolucion! Cheers.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Thank you for answering as to a difference of opinion, and in a respectful tone. Your point on the handling is well taken, and appropriate, as long as context is maintained. Certainly, none of my bikes remained stock for long, either in powerplant or suspension. Anybody with a passion for weekend racing, or for shredding public roads, would want to modify their car to maximize performance and handling. However, for the purpose for which the car was intended - namely, carrying people and things, while supporting a thrilling and engaging ownership experience - the stock Model Y is up to the task. Perhaps "floppy mess" is less respectful than the car deserves.

RE C&D's review. I have been a subscriber since they were known as Sports Car Illustrated (SCI), back in the day. Their editors, and reviewers, take themselves quite seriously. As entertaining as they are, they sometimes get carried away. When that happens, their hyperbole can be a disservice to car and manufacturer. In the case of Tesla, and the moto press in general, company policies make this worse than it should be. Magazines write for enthusiasts, while keeping in mind advertising revenue. They are also used to very respectful handling from the manufacturers' PR people, and those who provide them with their test vehicles. And then there's Tesla. No PR department, no advertising, no friendly strokes, little respect and cooperation, and no provided vehicles. I'm amazed they've been as well treated as they have.

Always glad to exchange views with folks who are passionate about cars, and about what Tesla has brought to the mix. Viva la Revolucion! Cheers.

I'll have my strong opinions on issues, cars, and such. I'll argue the point strongly. I am happy to do so. I don't think a car company or car needs or deserves a respectful tone. Certainly Elon Musk is one of the least respectful, least caring people to have graced Fremont. He IS Tesla PR, and CD's tone about his cars is nowhere as bad as his tone about Fremont, Alameda County, and California in general. His disrespect for his workers is something of legend. I wonder how many Tesla employees died because of his decisions, but I also wonder how many people died outside of Tesla, people in nursing homes and such in the Bay Area and beyond.

Also, I admit freely that when people attack me directly here, I'll attack right back. I don't start it, but I'll certainly up the level with glee. To be clear, I don't think you are being disrespectful.

And I stand by my words that the car is a hot mess on these bumpy roads. Whatever Tesla was targeting with the MYLR, it's not something I'd want them to hit. It handles better than my extended wheelbase RAM 1500 did, but that's not saying much. It's also something I couldn't notice in the first 1500 miles or so because I was on better roads.

 

[jpfive]

I'll have my strong opinions on issues, cars, and such. I'll argue the point strongly. I am happy to do so. I don't think a car company or car needs or deserves a respectful tone. Certainly Elon Musk is one of the least respectful, least caring people to have graced Fremont. He IS Tesla PR, and CD's tone about his cars is nowhere as bad as his tone about Fremont, Alameda County, and California in general. His disrespect for his workers is something of legend. I wonder how many Tesla employees died because of his decisions, but I also wonder how many people died outside of Tesla, people in nursing homes and such in the Bay Area and beyond.

Also, I admit freely that when people attack me directly here, I'll attack right back. I don't start it, but I'll certainly up the level with glee. To be clear, I don't think you are being disrespectful.

And I stand by my words that the car is a hot mess on these bumpy roads. Whatever Tesla was targeting with the MYLR, it's not something I'd want them to hit. It handles better than my extended wheelbase RAM 1500 did, but that's not saying much. It's also something I couldn't notice in the first 1500 miles or so because I was on better roads.

How does that old toast go...? "May you live in interesting times..." These last few years have been a rolling puzzle. And populated as they are with great persons, with fractured personalities, has made them even more interesting. Certainly Musk is one of these. A self-admitted, maybe self-diagnosed, member of the Aspberger community, he is a bit off-center in the areas of interpersonal communication. Certainly less equipped to feel empathy. I'm sure he is maddening to work for. But, having said that, I see in him an admixture of others who have shared my time on this earth. Hughes, Gates, Jobs, Bezos to name four. And go back just part of a century further. Ford, Edison, Tesla. Giants of accomplishment all, and all with feet of clay. We don't have to admire the whole person to admire what they have given us. And therein lies the tale. Thanks for a good exchange.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Musk's claims to Asperger Syndrome strikes me more as an excuse for immoral, unempathetic behavior than anything else. The people I've known on the autism spectrum range from high functioning and high IQ to low IQ, but every single one of them had plenty of empathy once they understood the impacts of their actions.

If anything, what I've seen is that the very rich are less likely to have empathy. Whether that's a function of what it takes to become very rich, or a function of the social power and impacts of being very rich (or both!), I do not know.

 

[Tha_Ape]

Certainly the M3P I drove in anger was nothing like the MYLR I have now.

Car and Driver wrote:
"it feels clumsy and increasingly unhappy as you probe its cornering limits. The Tesla's ride is noticeably flintier and less refined, and tire impacts resonate through the structure. The Model Y can't hide its 4439-pound weight. Pressing toward that 0.94-g number taxes the Pirelli P Zero rubber, and the suspension never seems to settle down."

uhhh... 0.94g is nothing to scoff at. Thats a SOLID skidpad.... especially for an SUV!

 

[Jigglypuff]

uhhh... 0.94g is nothing to scoff at. Thats a SOLID skidpad.... especially for an SUV!

A skidpad measures steady-state grip on a smooth surface. It certainly is a number connected to overall performance, but I don't much care for it as I live in a world of dips, bumps, and transitions. Those sticky tires have to stay connected with the ground, and that weight has to stop oscillating fore and aft and side to side, for me to get grip. That's where the MYLR falls apart.

 

[patmurphey]

Musk's claims to Asperger Syndrome strikes me more as an excuse for immoral, unempathetic behavior than anything else. The people I've known on the autism spectrum range from high functioning and high IQ to low IQ, but every single one of them had plenty of empathy once they understood the impacts of their actions.

If anything, what I've seen is that the very rich are less likely to have empathy. Whether that's a function of what it takes to become very rich, or a function of the social power and impacts of being very rich (or both!), I do not know.

Can you explain what diatribes against Musk have anything to do with Model Y vs. RAV4 Prime? Please keep things civil and on track...

 

[Jigglypuff]

Can you explain what diatribes against Musk have anything to do with Model Y vs. RAV4 Prime? Please keep things civil and on track...

See, this is the kind of snippiness I don't get. Par for the course here, though. Follow the conversation.

 

[Tha_Ape]

A skidpad measures steady-state grip on a smooth surface. It certainly is a number connected to overall performance, but I don't much care for it as I live in a world of dips, bumps, and transitions. Those sticky tires have to stay connected with the ground, and that weight has to stop oscillating fore and aft and side to side, for me to get grip. That's where the MYLR falls apart.

How do the slalom speeds compare?

 

[Jigglypuff]

How do the slalom speeds compare?

I've not seen a good source of slalom speeds. One issue with slaloms is that they benefit narrower cars, which the Model Y is not. A Miata is going to be fast because it's narrow. All of these arbitrary measures just have to bee seen in context. Slaloms are good for measuring transitions, again on a smooth surface. Nobody runs slaloms on bumps. It'd be awesome if they did, though.

Then there's Motortrend with the figure 8. It is a mixture of transitions and acceleration plug an overall G rating. It's an interesting test of smooth surface transitions and acceleration. The MY does well there. It was 25.2 seconds and .75g if I remember correctly. How much of that is acceleration and how much of that is handling I don't know.

The Motor Trend Laguna Seca tests are pretty cool, with Pobst driving. That's a smooth track, though. The MYLR is reasonable when it's smooth. It's a mess in the bumps.

I should shoot some video from the bumper and compare our cars. It'd be interesting to see the differences. Could you identify which car is which from just the ride quality?

 

[mrwug]

How do the slalom speeds compare?

Would you settle for the Moose Test?

83 km/h for the MY
71 km/h for the MME

 

[jpfive]

Musk's claims to Asperger Syndrome strikes me more as an excuse for immoral, unempathetic behavior than anything else. The people I've known on the autism spectrum range from high functioning and high IQ to low IQ, but every single one of them had plenty of empathy once they understood the impacts of their actions.

If anything, what I've seen is that the very rich are less likely to have empathy. Whether that's a function of what it takes to become very rich, or a function of the social power and impacts of being very rich (or both!), I do not know.

Peace, out.

 

[Tha_Ape]

I've not seen a good source of slalom speeds. One issue with slaloms is that they benefit narrower cars, which the Model Y is not. A Miata is going to be fast because it's narrow. All of these arbitrary measures just have to bee seen in context. Slaloms are good for measuring transitions, again on a smooth surface. Nobody runs slaloms on bumps. It'd be awesome if they did, though.

A skidpad measures steady-state grip on a smooth surface. It certainly is a number connected to overall performance, but I don't much care for it as I live in a world of dips, bumps, and transitions. Those sticky tires have to stay connected with the ground, and that weight has to stop oscillating fore and aft and side to side, for me to get grip. That's where the MYLR falls apart.

Actually I did a little more googling while looking for slalom (since apparently no one records speeds anymore... at least for SUVs). It turns out the 0.94 is the performance and 0.88 for the MYLR which makes A LOT more sense. 0.94 seemed ridiculous for all seasons on an SUV

 

[timeshifter]

My only regret with my Model Y is that I miss CarPlay. Tesla's system is not a great (not terrible, but not great) substitute. With the high prices for used Teslas I've sometimes considered selling and getting something else like a RAV4 Prime just to get real CarPlay (and make a huge profit selling my 6 month old car)